Ridgid Peddinghaus- Is My Anvil Defective?

Discussion in 'Hammer & Tongs' started by ForgeMaine, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. ForgeMaine

    ForgeMaine

    3
    Nov 5, 2015
    Hello, new member here. I just received my Ridgid Peddinghaus Model 5 (35kg). [Delivery Guy: "It's...literally an anvil."] I haven't used it yet, and I'm impressed with the ring when I flick the side but I do have some concerns.


    Horn/side of anvil is coated in heavy paint, seems a bit chipped at horn (paint flake) as if the first coat came off and was covered by second. Also has some little bubbles that I'm mostly able to smooth out with my thumbnail. I don't care about this much as long as the heavy coat isn't obscuring actual cracks in the anvil, which I have read about in recent models...

    Horn does have flat parts, more often than not actually. It's basically a series of flat grinds. If it's not supposed to have them I'm a bit disappointed, but I suspect it won't be too hard to smooth them out.

    Hardie is mostly square in relation to face, has circular chamfering. I haven't tried putting a 1" hardie in, I don't own any yet. I did take pictures by the way, and will post them as soon as I'm able. It can't be off by much though, and I don't care about this at all.

    My biggest concern is that the face of the anvil has small circular pock marks, almost like little trails of very tiny bubbles. I can easily feel them when I run my finger over the face. Is this normal? If not, well then I'll definitely be returning it. That will be fun... But yeah, this part will probably be the dealbreaker for me unless it's a superficial quality that's so common in new anvils no one ever talks about it, because I've never heard of this defect before.

    Radiusing on edges seems inconsistent. I am not yet familiar enough with how it should be ideally to tell if it's too much or too little, but there are definitely variations. Feeling it now, it does seem like there may have been a shallow chip on one side, covered by paint.

    The anvil's Ridgid stamp is faint at the borders and doesn't seem to have been applied evenly (one corner more pronounced, the opposite not visible). This isn't important in the slightest, but I read another post that indicated he had to return a Ridgid anvil that had defects that also showed an inconsistent brand stamp. Maybe they're having some quality control issues, or it's maybe just a bad batch that is selling slowly. I may have to test the quality of their warranty/return policy and customer service.
     
  2. Lieblad

    Lieblad

    Jul 24, 2015
    ......
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  3. ForgeMaine

    ForgeMaine

    3
    Nov 5, 2015
  4. Rick Marchand

    Rick Marchand Donkey on the Edge Moderator

    Jan 6, 2005
    That is normal in modern anvils. The user is expected to dress the edges and face to suit their needs. Nice anvil... Rigid/Peddinghaus tend to ring like a B!t<#. Look up noise reduction tips to save your ears.
     
  5. ForgeMaine

    ForgeMaine

    3
    Nov 5, 2015
    That's a huge relief, the anvil looks like it can get the job done and I wasn't looking forward to a return. How does one go about dressing the actual face of the anvil though? I've heard an angle grinder w/ 180 grit flap disk will work on the edges, not sure about the working face though.
     
  6. Rick Marchand

    Rick Marchand Donkey on the Edge Moderator

    Jan 6, 2005
    Depending on the radii you want on your edges, It can be a gentle break with a flap disk or more aggressive with some grinding pads ... or a hard disk if you are careful. The face can be done with a handheld belt sander or paper and blocks.

    Whatever you do, go slow and have a plan...
     
  7. Lieblad

    Lieblad

    Jul 24, 2015
    .....
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  8. J. Alex Kelamis

    J. Alex Kelamis

    4
    Nov 24, 2019
    I know it's been 4 years since a post. Hopefully this will help others with concerns.
    I recently bought a Rigid Peddinghaus Model 12 anvil. This is what I learned:
    1) The anvils are shipped with a clear coat on the face. This will cause tiny bubbles to appear. It will also cause the face to seemingly "scratch" or develop unsightly marks on it when you first use it. However, do not be alarmed as this is normal and solely to protect the anvil from corrosion during it's Atlantic voyage. You can remove the clear coat by sanding gently (I recommend a block sander with 220 grit paper, sanding parallel to the steel grain). You can also just leave the clear coat. It will come off with normal use.
    2) The edges of the anvil are unfinished. You will need to finish the edges by creating a radius. Depending on the weight of the anvil, which side you prefer to stand on, and personal preference, this will determine how you finish the edges. You need to read up and learn about radii and anvils. If you finish it, I highly recommend using a quality flat file to slowly grind the radius. You don't want heat forming as it will harm the hardness of the face. After the radii of the edges are formed, you can smooth then down with 220 grit paper, then 300 or 400 grit, and so on until you reach the desired smoothness. You can also use a 220 grit angle grinder, but go slow and use very little pressure. If you're making Sparks you're using too much pressure. Keep moving, don't stay in one area for more than a second so as to not create heat and damage the hardness. If you have someone locally who is a professional, have them finish it. It will be worth your time and money because you'll learn a lot. These individuals seem to be a dying breed, sadly.
    3) The anvil has a powder coat on the none-face parts. This includes the forward horn and sides. It will chip off as you use it. It's supposed to. Again, it is only there to prevent corrosion during shipping. Many will gently sand it off. Or, you can use chemical paint stripper, although I do not recommend doing so. Just leave it. The marks add character.
    4) The face should be flat, without exception. The sides may have non-straight edges, and this is to be expected.
    Care for the anvil in this manner: never leave anything on the anvil while not using it, especially metal and leather. They can quickly lead go corrosion. Apply a generous amount of oil to the anvil after each use for the first 10 or 20 uses. After that, you can apply oil infrequently.
    I highly recommend placing a protective barrier under the anvil base to prevent rust and corrosion. Placing it on metal or wood will lead to corrosion, slowly, but surely. I recommend putting a rubber mat, rubber flashing, or something under the base. Used anvils almost universally have rust and corrosion on the base. It may not affect the integrity but it's better to prevent it.
    Care for it like you do your hands and it will be a prized possession of your grandchildren someday.
     
  9. Rick Marchand

    Rick Marchand Donkey on the Edge Moderator

    Jan 6, 2005
    Alex... welcome to the forums!

    Pretty old post but I'll bite...

    Why are you so concerned about heat from files or sanding/grinding discs, if you are going to be beating on 1600-2100F steel?

    Sanding parallel to the steel grain? I give up.... maybe the existing surface marks? As for the horn... remove paint from anywhere you will be working the metal. Hot steel and paint are not compatible. Those character marks might look cool on the anvil but scorched paint on your workpiece, isn't.

    I also don't get oiling after first 20 uses, then less frequently. Wipe it with a rag but don't apply generous amounts of oil. All that will do is gum up the scale bits and create nasty smoke every time you use it.

    I have never heard of an anvil rusting to the point of irreparable damage. I have a friend who spotted the horn of an anvil, sticking out of the base of an old drainage ditch. with the permission of the landowner, he dug it out of the mud, hit it with a flap wheel and some tremclad rust paint. It looks brand new. I can't see moisture from a base doing much of anything.

    Seems like you are putting way too much thought into this beautiful, yet bombproof, tool. Not that taking extra special care of your equipment is bad... just a bit overkill in my opinion.
     
  10. J. Alex Kelamis

    J. Alex Kelamis

    4
    Nov 24, 2019
    Thank you for the post, and the welcoming!

    The points you raised are very good. While I don't have the answers to all things in life, and metals, this is what I do know from prior experience and learning.

    We routinely put metal/steel in excess of 1500F on the hardened anvil face. So why worry about heat from grinding? I've often wondered myself what the hardness is after years of using an anvil face for hammering hot steel. But, that's what it was designed to do. I also have hardly ever seen a blue burn mark left on an anvil face after working it. The same isn't true for grinding. First, I would never recommend grinding hardened untempered steel. This is foolish and will induce heat, stresses, and fine cracks. It lessens the life of the anvil, tool, or whatever it is one is using. It is true that high technology production mills are indeed using grinding as a way of intentionally hardening steel. However, they also aren't doing it by hand, and they use copious volumes of coolants. When steel is ground, the surface will reach a temperature higher than the tempering temperature (if it was tempered). If the temperature gets much hotter, it will re-harden due to the thin surface cooling, well, quickly. The problem is this: you aren't going to get uniform heat, or temperatures, when holding a grinder. Some areas will get very hot and harden, while areas immediately adjacent will reach lower temperatures, causing them to become considerably softer. So now, we have hardened steel surfaces mixed with softened steel surfaces, and they are going to crack. It isn't theoretical. The more the face is damaged, the more damage it will incur. So, don't grind it. Unless you are doing it in a multi-million dollar production facility. In which case you can buy all the anvils you want. Here's a well written article on this subject matter, it's guaranteed to bore you, but still worth the read:
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAFegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3_SP085eglvr9Ko68DFCv3

    As for sanding parallel to the grain. No, you can't see the grain. Unless you etch it with 25% H2SO4, which is stupid. But, the production of the anvil tells us what the grain orientation is, because it was forged. And I absolutely recommend sanding or grinding (whichever term you prefer) parallel to the grain. The reasoning is because if you are parallel to the grain you have less chance of interrupting the grain and weakening the surface. Normally, I wouldn't be concerned about that disruption, unless it's a die or anvil, or other hardened tool undergoing great forces. My concern is again wanting to prevent the surface from cracking in the years to come, so the anvil will last longer than I do.

    As for paint, you're correct, it doesn't mix well with heat. And I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but I never said paint. I specifically said powder coat. Powder coat is not paint, not chemically, not in behavior. Powder coating is used in areas that will heat up or experience direct heat. So, leave the powder coat on the peddinghaus anvil if you like the character. Or remove it. Paint stripper will work, even though it isn't paint. I've never seen an anvil with paint. Hopefully this isn't actually happening with anyone.

    As for the oil, the steel is extremely porous. It doesn't matter what type it is. It is sealed immediately after finishing production at factory, after having been heated up so high to burn off (oxidize actually) most impurities at surface. So, the pores are empty, waiting to soak up whatever appears first. This will be moisture in most regions, unless you frequently apply oil. Applying heat will then hasten corrosion. So, it's a bad combination. Some productions soak the steel (or any ferrous metal) in black oxide, forming a magnitite containing product to protect the surfaces. Anvil manufacturers don't. It's simply too expensive, and shouldn't be needed. This I learned from a number of blacksmiths, all much older than myself, and all with more experience than I'll ever have. They had numerous anvils handed down generations within their families. And they learned that one blacksmith will usually see the negative effects on their anvils within their lifetime, but their followers will certainly see them. I just believe that if you're going to do something, you do need to put thought into it. More importantly, that thought should make sense. Everything we do should make sense. If it doesn't we are doing it wrong and we relegate ourselves to randomness and mediocre results.
    There's always more than one way to do something, because none of those ways are perfect. But there's definitely wrong ways to do things. I try to avoid those wrongs. I'd rather think more and take steps that are safe, but not completely useful, than not think and take a step that is harmful.
     
  11. Rick Marchand

    Rick Marchand Donkey on the Edge Moderator

    Jan 6, 2005
    I think you are carrying industry standards over to a trade that can't possibly be held to the same degree. I know most and suspect the rest of everything you said to be, for the most part, accurate. I worked in the tool, die and mold industry for 15 years. Molds were finished and treated to a much higher degree than dies... which were finished further than die-sets/fixtures. Could we have finished everything with the exacting tolerances of mold cores and cavities? Yes. Did they need to be? Nope.

    We are talking about folks swinging hammers at hot, dirty metal, in hot dirty shops with who knows what chemicals and contaminants. Overstrikes, forge scale, abrasives, sweat, misshapen or damaged hammer faces.... the list goes on.

    It's an anvil... that is sold closer scrap value, than a precision industry tool (pound for pound)

    I still say you are overthinking it.... but sincerely welcome your knowledge and thoroughness to bladeforums.
     
  12. J. Alex Kelamis

    J. Alex Kelamis

    4
    Nov 24, 2019
    It's no problem. I really do appreciate the comments. There aren't many people doing actual research, or whatever we want to call it, on what we do in the workshop and forge, but I think it would help us all if we could learn more. Learning can be difficult. Sometimes industry standards, or the information behind them, can be helpful, but yes it is absolutely excessive at times, and often has nothing to do with our tasks at hand. I agree, you're going to run into overthinking. I tried things, realized it's over-thought, and was more the wiser for simplifying the routine. Personally, I'm okay adding a step here and there if it is thought out and potentially offers better or safer results, even if it doesn't. That's why I value the criticism of others who can tell me "Stop. It's a waste of time."
    My concerns are with hardened steel, that's really the point I am trying to make. An old anvil is likely not going to be hardened. For new anvils, or new die, or anything truly hardened, I think grinding is causing harm to something they have paid a lot for, and risking damaging the product, or even injury. I've seen hardened steel come apart in normal use, and excess heat is one cause. It's scary. Seriously. There is a lot of energy stored in the structure from hardening. Every machinist I know, and it's not dozens, has heard or seen someone seriously injured from hardened steel coming apart, and 2 knew a person who died when the steel punctured his neck. I've never heard of someone dying from a ground anvil, but the concept still carries over. I just believe it's better for people to be aware that everything we do can affect the metal. Not just the metal we are working, but our tools.
    This has turned into exactly what I didn't want to do, so I'll stop posting. But your statements are good and well-taken, so I'm certainly not discounting what you've said. Thanks again.
     

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