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Rifles...
- Thread starter ednemo
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 63
ednemo said:
So far so good. Hit the bulls eye from 50 feet away. Easy to load and smooth firing.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2002
- Messages
- 2,959
For any sort of 'survival' or bug- out scenario I can envision, the rifle I would personally reach for is my SKS.
I also have a Ruger 10/22, but the .22 is simply not enough gun for deer or bad guys, in my eye. And I swear, we have more deer than squirrels here in southern Illinois. Why would I want to spend all day every day popping enough rabbits, squirrel, and birds to keep me fed, when I could just as easily shoot one deer and feast for several days?
I do not suggest that the SKS is the best all around gun for this, (I wish it were more accurate) but I would choose it over my bolt action and .22s because it's the gun I'm most familiar with. Of the thousands of rounds I've put thru it, only a handful have been at paper. I carried with me every day out in the fields, and used it on everything that walks, crawls, flies, slithers, or swims, from grasshoppers to coyotes. (I haven't actually taken a deer with it since that's illegal here, but have spoken with people who have.) It has taken coyotes at over 200 yards, and with the bayonet.
No dirt clod within 300 yards is safe, and if I have the luxury of several shots, that distance can be increased to 500-600 yards. (semi- auto comes in handy there too.) And yes, this round will still kill a rabbit or squirrel just as dead as a .22. Ammo is cheap enough to stock up now, and more importantly, practice a lot.
Aside from the caliber difference, I'm surprised so many of you have chosen to depend on single shots. I haven't hunted with one for years. Hey, those quick follow up shots come in mighty handy! Time and again, the repeater has made the difference between one critter for the pot, vs. three or more. Sometimes, when I missed a critter with the first shot, (I know it shouldn't happen, but it does. To the best of us.) it has enabled me to take it with the second. I mean, since we're talking about a survival scenario, it could mean the difference between starvation and a full belly. Even in the realm of .22s, there are several take down repeaters on the market that could stow easily enough to keep nearby all the time.
I also have a Ruger 10/22, but the .22 is simply not enough gun for deer or bad guys, in my eye. And I swear, we have more deer than squirrels here in southern Illinois. Why would I want to spend all day every day popping enough rabbits, squirrel, and birds to keep me fed, when I could just as easily shoot one deer and feast for several days?
I do not suggest that the SKS is the best all around gun for this, (I wish it were more accurate) but I would choose it over my bolt action and .22s because it's the gun I'm most familiar with. Of the thousands of rounds I've put thru it, only a handful have been at paper. I carried with me every day out in the fields, and used it on everything that walks, crawls, flies, slithers, or swims, from grasshoppers to coyotes. (I haven't actually taken a deer with it since that's illegal here, but have spoken with people who have.) It has taken coyotes at over 200 yards, and with the bayonet.
No dirt clod within 300 yards is safe, and if I have the luxury of several shots, that distance can be increased to 500-600 yards. (semi- auto comes in handy there too.) And yes, this round will still kill a rabbit or squirrel just as dead as a .22. Ammo is cheap enough to stock up now, and more importantly, practice a lot. Aside from the caliber difference, I'm surprised so many of you have chosen to depend on single shots. I haven't hunted with one for years. Hey, those quick follow up shots come in mighty handy! Time and again, the repeater has made the difference between one critter for the pot, vs. three or more. Sometimes, when I missed a critter with the first shot, (I know it shouldn't happen, but it does. To the best of us.) it has enabled me to take it with the second. I mean, since we're talking about a survival scenario, it could mean the difference between starvation and a full belly. Even in the realm of .22s, there are several take down repeaters on the market that could stow easily enough to keep nearby all the time.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2000
- Messages
- 454
A take-down Winchester model 12 in 12ga. fits in my pack nicely with an 18.5" barrel and it offers a variety of options for shells.
One might want to look at an AR-15. 5.56 can take a deer in a pinch and you can carry a whole lot of ammo. The M4 version with the light barrel breaks down quite small even with a full sized stock. A LRRS once told me he carried his rifle broken down in his ruck...I can't imagine he did this during wartime though, but it shows in can be packed.
One might want to look at an AR-15. 5.56 can take a deer in a pinch and you can carry a whole lot of ammo. The M4 version with the light barrel breaks down quite small even with a full sized stock. A LRRS once told me he carried his rifle broken down in his ruck...I can't imagine he did this during wartime though, but it shows in can be packed.
I'm not sure I have seen a "take down shotgun". But something like a Mossberg 500 with 18.5" bbl and 5 round magazine, or remington 870 of the same make up, could be broken down with only one bolt. Remove the barrel, by hand, remove the stock bolt and it would fit in a very small package. Putting it back together could be done in two minutes.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2002
- Messages
- 2,959
Ednemo-
Nearly every single shot and side-by-side double barrel break action shotgun made would fit your definition, if ya get one with short barrels. Ya might want to look at the Stoeger Coach gun, or cruise the racks for a used gun that could be shortened. (I've never looked at stackbarrels, but suspect many of them would as well.)
Most SxS doubles break down by simply popping off the forearm, (some models you have to press a button, on other guns the forearm is just held on by spring pressure & you simply pop it off) and the barrels will come off when you open the action. This leaves you with the barrels, forearm, and stock/action, and it can be broken down or reassembled without tools in about 3 seconds.
Nearly every single shot and side-by-side double barrel break action shotgun made would fit your definition, if ya get one with short barrels. Ya might want to look at the Stoeger Coach gun, or cruise the racks for a used gun that could be shortened. (I've never looked at stackbarrels, but suspect many of them would as well.)
Most SxS doubles break down by simply popping off the forearm, (some models you have to press a button, on other guns the forearm is just held on by spring pressure & you simply pop it off) and the barrels will come off when you open the action. This leaves you with the barrels, forearm, and stock/action, and it can be broken down or reassembled without tools in about 3 seconds.
As I've read this and other threads about rifles in a survival situation, something that keeps coming back to me is, "how easy are they to maintain and repair?" The only semi-auto rifle I currently own is a Ruger 10-22. since it is not gas operated but blow-back operated, there are few moving parts to break, unlike an SKS, AR-15, AK series, or even the semi-auto Remingtons and Brownings. At some time with a gas operated firearm, the gas system will need cleaning -- not something impossible in the field but could be tricky. A bolt action would be pretty simple to maintain with few sensitive parts. I would certainly be aware of the fact that the bolt can be separated from the rifle -- not that one would expect to misplace the bolt but it could drop someplace unaccessable (granted, not likely, but possible). Probably the least maintenance intensive firearm I own is a Winchester 94 lever action in 30-30. It is light, powerful enough to take small to large game, a decent round for self-defense, and ammo is easy to acquire. I can think of little that could go wrong with this thing. Even if the magazine lost it's spring, it could be breech loaded one at a time (as could many of the others mentioned above.)
I used to carry one regularly in the mountains of Utah and Idaho. My friend carried a U.S. Carbine, Cal. .30 M1. We used to hike into some little remote beaver ponds that had the best tasting little brook trout -- we didn't even take fishing equipment -- just shot a rifle near them and a couple of them would float up right into our waiting fry pans! While sleeping one night, my friend heard a mountain lion growl. He sat up in his bag and grabbed a flashlight. The beam highlighted a smallish female cat about forty yards away just sitting on her haunches and looking real mean. She wouldn't go away so he grabbed his carbine, inserted a magazine (it seem a little hard to get it to go in) and pulled the bolt back. He had inserted the magazine "backwards" and when he released the bolt, it picked up the backward facing round and jammed. The cat sneered and got up and walked off as if to say, "what an idiot! If I get hungry for one of those "Coleman" burritos later, I'll come back!"
Bottom line, the fewer the moving parts, and detachable parts, the more reliable.
Bruce
I used to carry one regularly in the mountains of Utah and Idaho. My friend carried a U.S. Carbine, Cal. .30 M1. We used to hike into some little remote beaver ponds that had the best tasting little brook trout -- we didn't even take fishing equipment -- just shot a rifle near them and a couple of them would float up right into our waiting fry pans! While sleeping one night, my friend heard a mountain lion growl. He sat up in his bag and grabbed a flashlight. The beam highlighted a smallish female cat about forty yards away just sitting on her haunches and looking real mean. She wouldn't go away so he grabbed his carbine, inserted a magazine (it seem a little hard to get it to go in) and pulled the bolt back. He had inserted the magazine "backwards" and when he released the bolt, it picked up the backward facing round and jammed. The cat sneered and got up and walked off as if to say, "what an idiot! If I get hungry for one of those "Coleman" burritos later, I'll come back!"
Bottom line, the fewer the moving parts, and detachable parts, the more reliable.
Bruce
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2002
- Messages
- 2,959
bruce said:
I figure if something important breaks, I will probably not be able to construct a new part from sticks and rocks in the field, whether we're talking about a single shot bolt action, or high-tech semi auto. Perhaps a better question would be, "How easily can it break in the first place?" Any rifle that has been used successfully by a military force for a number of years is most likely gonna be built pretty tough. The number of parts is not what makes a gun reliable or not. How tough those parts are built has more to do with it. My SKS has already taken abuse that would have snapped the stock of the Henry .22s shown above. And as to the cleaning- though I'm sure this depends on what type of action we're discussing, I can say with confidence this is simply not an issue with my SKS. I mentioned I carried it with me daily in the fields- often just thrown on the floor of a tractor. (no case is necessary if you're on your own property in Illinois) I bought this rifle new, but it seriously looks like it survived a world war. From all that banging around, it got some "character marks". Gashes (not scratches, mind you, gashes) up to several inches long and 1/4" deep in the wood. Nothing broke. On many, many days, we were both covered with a layer of dust literally an 1/8" thick. I'd just casually brush off the stock, and shoot the dust out of the chrome- lined bore. After TWO YEARS of this treatment, I finally took 'er apart to check things out. The gas system was still bright and clean (self cleaning design), the bore was still pristine, and most importantly, it still WORKED just like the day I got it. And even if it did need a field cleaning, it's simply not a problem. All you'd need is a stick and some kind of improvised wadding to swab the bore and gas tube; same as anything else with a barrel. So I let it go another year or so before its next cleaning. That was about, let's see..... four years ago? Still works the same as it always has.
Well when it was all said and done I decided against the rifles altogether. I have decided to purchase a 12ga Mossberg 590A-1 shotgun with Ghost Ring sights. I'm picking up a folding Copstock from Knoxx industries and this will give me exactly what I want. Close up as well as distance firepower. Thanks for the help everybody.
Ed
Ed