Right steel for the right job and reducing redundancies + PM2 handle decision

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So, as a recent Spyderco fan, I have a few new steels that I have and some I want. My favorite knife from them is the PM2, and with that, for utility purposes, I am usually carrying an old-school carbon steel folder ala Douk-Douk, Opinel, K55, Higo, or something like an R2D2, though it varies sometimes as what my "side utility knife" is.

I try to have purposes for the steels I buy, and not buy redundancies, like, I would not buy a package deal of three PM3s in S35VN, S45VN and SPY27, but I would think about the same deal with S110V, Cruwear and LC200N.

I have a PM2 in Black G10/S45VN and Micarta Cruwear, an Endura in ZDP-189, which I understand to be very sharp for a long time but brittle, so I intend for the Endura to be a "gentleman's slicer" type knife, and I intend to be very careful what I cut with the ZDP. For this reason, I was considering something in K390 as a more general purpose light cutter, something I've heard great things about. This would effectively make VG-10 redundant, correct? The only reason to buy something in VG-10 after that would be if it was saber-ground for a stronger tip.

I want to know what steels make what redundant, like, because I have S45, does that make SPY27 (and Elmax, I've heard) a bit redundant? My Cruwear for example, which I hear has qualities of many other high-end steels but with waaay better sharpenability, like, it doesn't need diamond stones, what steels would that effectively make redundant to get? There are certain steels that exceed all the qualities of another steel, like a "____ Killer" steel, a steel that is just a pumped up and better version of another. I know some still have their uses, like H1 is extremely tough even if it has no edge retention, saw one where someone was prying and bent the whole handle up instead of breaking the tip. What other steels out there are essentially completely improved versions of another steel, that make a certain steel redundant?

I have a Matriarch 2 in VG-10 which will soon become a mushroom-type knife as soon as I have another, and a 3cr Bug that is a "wallet knife", smaller than an Opinel no. 2.


Also, about my PM2 scale predicament, this is just a matter of folks's opinions: I intend to get some beautiful custom-designed wooden scales for the PM2, and am debating whether to use the Cruwear or S45VN for it, I would assume the one going on wooden scales would see more delicate use. Which would be more ideal for that? So, there I am with a CruCarta and S45 G10 PM2 blade, and the options of Black G10, Micarta, and custom wood handles, last of which would be treated gentler. What blades would you put on what handles if it was you?

Also want to know, what would be the best uses for a Wharncliffe, like, what tasks does it excel at? Thanks for your replies!
 
Theres not as many as you think probably...below is based on my personal usage.
Vanax > LC200N just barely
S45VN = S35VN I really failed to notice the difference; S45VN is currently getting the "new steel markup" treatment so I drift towards S35VN
9cr18mov > 8cr13mov the difference here is more noticeable with edge retention and rolling
Elmax > 154CM, 14c28n, etc Elmax is a noticeable step up for balanced steels
Aus10 > Aus8 noticeable improvement

Probably more, but that's what comes to mind. I get asked sometimes about below:
4v > 3v? Not in my book...4v rusts easier for me so I prefer 3v.
Magnacut > everything? We'll see haha
S110V > S90V? In real use, I think I prefer S90V as I find S110V chippy

Thanks for reading my thoughts!
Personal favorites:
To cut: K390, Maxamet
To stainless: LC200N
To chop, tough use: 3v

Edit: forgot to mention, manufacturer heat treatment is probably just as important as composition.
 
Theres not as many as you think probably...below is based on my personal usage.
Vanax > LC200N just barely
S45VN = S35VN I really failed to notice the difference; S45VN is currently getting the "new steel markup" treatment so I drift towards S35VN
9cr18mov > 8cr13mov the difference here is more noticeable with edge retention and rolling
Elmax > 154CM, 14c28n, etc Elmax is a noticeable step up for balanced steels
Aus10 > Aus8 noticeable improvement

Probably more, but that's what comes to mind. I get asked sometimes about below:
4v > 3v? Not in my book...4v rusts easier for me so I prefer 3v.
Magnacut > everything? We'll see haha
S110V > S90V? In real use, I think I prefer S90V as I find S110V chippy

Thanks for reading my thoughts!
Personal favorites:
To cut: K390, Maxamet
To stainless: LC200N
To chop, tough use: 3v

Edit: forgot to mention, manufacturer heat treatment is probably just as important as composition.
Yeah, I was thinking I really knocked it out of the park with S45VN, they gave it to me for no additional markup, instead of the S30V version. Seems like a fine steel. With the Cruwear, that seems like the ultimate steel that will work with you and hold an edge and is pretty stainless for a non-stainless steel. With ZDP I can do all the delicate work I need where I want something bigger than a Case. Seems like I should just get Vanax/LC200N, and Magnacut. They are evidently Magnacutting the Salt series, there is a Magnacut on Knifecenter that I want right now, but cannot get it because of a problem with my card and a recent death. Oh, and K390. I want a K390 plainedge, unfortunately I want the "Police" logo on my Police, so no K390 Police for me (that's a purchase of aesthetic love).

So...K390, Vanax/LC200N, and a big 3V chopper is what I need. Maybe Maxamet if I'm feeling erotic. Thanks for giving me a fixed-blader! I know most of these modern steels ain't suited to use on a hard-chopper. It's funny, carbon steel is my second favorite to super-steels. That's why my carry is like "Oh, Cruwear PM2 or a Douk-Douk", haha.

I heard how great S90V is, less chippy than S110V, and about as forever-edge... I was going to wait for the S90V Yojumbo to drop, and still probably will, but bought a black DLC S30V one in the interim...lol... went kind of crazy lately. Also got my girlfriend a Sage 5 for Valentines Day that I will rit-dye purple. I want that sweet sweet M4 so may get a version to keep mint-green for myself. M4 is a D2 killer, right? I heard of some steel recently, think it was M4, that was just a hugely upgraded D2.

Oh, and on the subject of Yojumbos, are you a wharnie guy?
Oh yes, I am very privvy to proper treatment and geometry, that is why I am not interested in Benchmade or ZT's Elmax, no risk with Spyderco. Everything "super-steel" above AUS-10a comes from Spyderco for me except for my S35VN Espada XL.
As to scales, i love the balance the flytanium scales give the pm2, ergos are really good. The weight is more, but they balance that knife perfectly for me.
I really, really like the Jade Flytanium. Maybe the Brass. I moreso wish they had scales for RAT/RAT2. Wish more people did aftermarket stuff for those knives.

But I am having a custom maker (Vladimir Stetchkov) carve my girlfriend's design, so these wooden scales will be VERY custom to me, and very special. I would need another PM2 blade to get the Flytanium, haha, will already have to choose the Black G10 or Micarta not to use for a bit, and I like both a lot. But, will have three scales with two blades, can't have four scales haha
 
Ive never owned 2 of the same knife. I have a PM2 in black DLC with flytanium copper scales that Im very attached to. Like a fool I let another person use it and they managed to do a good bit of damage to the edge. Spyderco is taking care of it for $25. The flytanium lotus titanium scales forced me into another PM2. Im going for a tanto with this one. I never thought I'd have 2 of the same (mostly) knife. Im not knowledgeable about blade steels so I stick with the more normal stuff. I believe most of mine are elmax or m390. If I were gifting a nice knife to someone that would use it appropriately as a knife I would gravitate toward elmax if I were sharpening it. M390 if it was Spyderco or Microtech since they sharpen for a very reasonable price.
That said I'm also a wharncliffe fan. Ive got a set of flytanium titanium scales coming for my Yojimbo 2 as well. Im beginning to see a pattern
 
Sounds like your getting pretty deep into it quickly haha 👍. I just got a Maxamet Para 3 that I really love. I haven't done a ton of testing on it yet but the edge retention is pretty amazing according to some of the cut tests I've seen. There's a dude on youtube Outpost76 that does a ton of edge retention and toughness testing, you'd probably be interested in checking out some of his videos. He tests everything from inexpensive Petrified Fish and Civivis to the other big production companies. There's rumors that maxamet isn't very tough but he has a video where he batons through a brass rod with a ball peen hammer and it held up pretty dang good.

One other thing I wanted to mention is that there are quite a few knife podcasts on Spotify and what not. If you have a job where you can listen to them while you work you can learn a lot about the different steels and what not.
 
Those scales will be amazing, all the better with your gfs design on them. I live the customization possibilites with these knives, and its awesome you're making this one your own.
 
I have a PM2 in Black G10/S45VN and Micarta Cruwear, an Endura in ZDP-189, which I understand to be very sharp for a long time but brittle, so I intend for the Endura to be a "gentleman's slicer" type knife, and I intend to be very careful what I cut with the ZDP. For this reason, I was considering something in K390 as a more general purpose light cutter, something I've heard great things about. This would effectively make VG-10 redundant, correct? The only reason to buy something in VG-10 after that would be if it was saber-ground for a stronger tip.

Hashi, you might want to value VG-10 for its stain resistance compared to K390 and ZDP-189. Maybe compared to Cruwear, too. Up to you, my friend.
 
Hashi, you might want to value VG-10 for its stain resistance compared to K390 and ZDP-189. Maybe compared to Cruwear, too. Up to you, my friend.
Yessir! I was going to get one of those funky saber-ground Centofante models because that beautiful tip is reinforced That's a VG-10. Oh, and remember what I said about the Police? That one is a pure aesthetic choice, because only the VG-10 has the hollow grind with the "POLICE" logo. Which is something I'd probably think is stupid on any other knife, on this one I just think "I'M TRYNA TELL YA NOW, IT'S SABOTAAAAGE" (Beastie Boys, love their punk roots so had to love what they grew into)

I hear it performs very well for a fraction of the price! It will certainly see my collection in something besides the Matriarch :) The ZDP-189 is a steel I am determined to use, but is chip-prone.
Those scales will be amazing, all the better with your gfs design on them. I live the customization possibilites with these knives, and its awesome you're making this one your own.
I am beaming with pride, and so is she, this is the first time her stuff has been designed by a pro! The customization was already ridiculous before I found this custom-maker, I mean, a Jade PM2? Brass, bronze, and copper? So much beauty.
 
Sounds like your getting pretty deep into it quickly haha 👍. I just got a Maxamet Para 3 that I really love. I haven't done a ton of testing on it yet but the edge retention is pretty amazing according to some of the cut tests I've seen. There's a dude on youtube Outpost76 that does a ton of edge retention and toughness testing, you'd probably be interested in checking out some of his videos. He tests everything from inexpensive Petrified Fish and Civivis to the other big production companies. There's rumors that maxamet isn't very tough but he has a video where he batons through a brass rod with a ball peen hammer and it held up pretty dang good.

One other thing I wanted to mention is that there are quite a few knife podcasts on Spotify and what not. If you have a job where you can listen to them while you work you can learn a lot about the different steels and what not.
First off, thank you for recommendations! Can you tell me the names of any specific podcasts? That would be very useful to me as I am certainly looking to learn more about steel in general.

Oh yes, I am getting into it quite a lot, and I am very happy because, right now, Spyderco is the only high-end brand I need, construction is always perfect, and so many different steels for different tasks. I am honestly too afraid to buy a Benchmade because of the nature of that spring, even though I like the 940 hell, I'm even just a little apprehensive about Spyderco's ball lock. But, the thing is, even though there is totally an aspect of collectability to 'em, all of mine are for a specific purpose. I spend a ton on Spyderco and go for budget gold otherwise (Except for my Espada XL), like my favorite other brands are Ontario, Opinel, old gold brands like that so long as they haven't been sold to China like Schrade. I can buy a Spyderco this week, and five Opinels next week, and love them so much, but in different ways. Just got an exclusive Opinel that is so beautiful.

About Maxamet - I have seen a few broken Maxamet blades out there and it has kind of scared me away from it when Cru-Wear exists and they just Magnacutted a Salt, but I have heard amazing things about it when it is intact in terms of how long it cuts! And maybe Spyderco is getting the heat treat right, considering the ball peen hammer test you spoke of! Saw a Native in Maxamet, looked pretty. Never considered a linerlock spydie yet, except for the Military. Oh, and fun fact? All the liners to each of my PM2s is different. My S45VN has the normal nested liners, but the Crucarta has full liners because of the lessened rigidity of that material, and the brass REX45 one I am getting has integrally milled liners, I believe! Crazy.
 
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Love your enthusiasm friend!

Just watch your wallet...
Oh, that is sound advice, my good sir, it goes fast...

Oh, and one last point - you remarked that S45VN is getting the "new steel markup", I am mainly looking at BHQ here but the S30V is actually more expensive. It is also DLC, but it is more expensive. And the Cruwear is only three dollars more than black DLC S30V! Though they might be sending people S45, they did with me. I haven't seen them marking it up, is what I'm saying. But you would expect it! And other places/individual sellers could be doing it.

"This is S45VN, dude, I need 250 for this PM2, bro. It has 15 more VN than the regular version... "
And some peeps are bound to treat S30V/S35VN like pot metal now even though they are perfectly good steels.
 
Oh, that is sound advice, my good sir, it goes fast...

Oh, and one last point - you remarked that S45VN is getting the "new steel markup", I am mainly looking at BHQ here but the S30V is actually more expensive. It is also DLC, but it is more expensive. And the Cruwear is only three dollars more than black DLC S30V! Though they might be sending people S45, they did with me. I haven't seen them marking it up, is what I'm saying. But you would expect it! And other places/individual sellers could be doing it.

"This is S45VN, dude, I need 250 for this PM2, bro. It has 15 more VN than the regular version... "
And some peeps are bound to treat S30V/S35VN like pot metal now even though they are perfectly good steels.
Spyderco is actually quite good with their prices on steels. I'm thinking more terms of, when 440c was big! Then its S30V! Then its M390!

Spotlight steels (right now, magnacut) are probably going to get a little mark up, despite (educated guess) not costing significantly more in terms of material and overhead. Maybe I'm wrong, but just my thoughts.
 
If anything, I'd say K390 is redundant to ZDP189, which are both non-stainless steels that prioritize edge retention; K390 has much worse corrosion resistance than ZDP189 (ZDP is like 20% Chromium, I'd say it's stainlessness is pretty close to D2), but (anecdotally at least) it is tougher.
VG10 is more of a basic all-around stainless steel.
 
Thats cool on the different liners, I didnt know that. On the podcasts, yes let me see...
Knife perspective (2 good episodes on steel and heat treat with Larrin)
Sharp Talk
Knife nuts
Behind the edge
Those are the ones i listen to, that should keepbya busy, that's enough to listen to for 8 hours a day for atleast a few months haha
First off, thank you for recommendations! Can you tell me the names of any specific podcasts? That would be very useful to me as I am certainly looking to learn more about steel in general.

Oh yes, I am getting into it quite a lot, and I am very happy because, right now, Spyderco is the only high-end brand I need, construction is always perfect, and so many different steels for different tasks. I am honestly too afraid to buy a Benchmade because of the nature of that spring, even though I like the 940 hell, I'm even just a little apprehensive about Spyderco's ball lock. But, the thing is, even though there is totally an aspect of collectability to 'em, all of mine are for a specific purpose. I spend a ton on Spyderco and go for budget gold otherwise (Except for my Espada XL), like my favorite other brands are Ontario, Opinel, old gold brands like that so long as they haven't been sold to China like Schrade. I can buy a Spyderco this week, and five Opinels next week, and love them so much, but in different ways. Just got an exclusive Opinel that is so beautiful.

About Maxamet - I have seen a few broken Maxamet blades out there and it has kind of scared me away from it when Cru-Wear exists and they just Magnacutted a Salt, but I have heard amazing things about it when it is intact in terms of how long it cuts! And maybe Spyderco is getting the heat treat right, considering the ball peen hammer test you spoke of! Saw a Native in Maxamet, looked pretty. Never considered a linerlock spydie yet, except for the Military. Oh, and fun fact? All the liners to each of my PM2s is different. My S45VN has the normal nested liners, but the Crucarta has full liners because of the lessened rigidity of that material, and the brass REX45 one I am getting has integrally milled liners, I believe! Crazy.
 
I have PM2 in Cruwear, M4 and Endura in ZDP189. I don’t have Spyderco heat treated S45VN but I have CS S35VN.
First, I would not dismiss VG10. It’s a great steel, easy to sharpen, could be fairly hard depending on the HT and it takes excellent edge. Won’t rust as M4 or stain as Cruwear or ZDP189.
About the steels, I would put the ZDP189 to be the hardest one, followed by probably Cruwear and S45VN and VG10 being the “softest” sort of speak.
Toughness would go probably in opposite way as VG10 being the toughest or maybe share same place with S45VN for what I can observe from my S35VN use of the Cold Steel blade, Cruwear and last - the ZDP189.
‘With this said, I don’t find my ZDP Endura to be brittle… Factory edge is very sharp and I still didn’t need to put new edge on it. I’m not too much into charts and such technicalities but it does have such a thin stock behind the edge that I think if I give it 15-16 degrees angle per side, it will outlast the factory edge…
‘However im in the same page as you, but for different reasons, and will probably give her sharper angle, like 14 per side…
K390 will probably top all of those steels in terms of toughness and hardness, the two things I care about.
Ill get soon Police 4 in K390 and then I’ll have some impression how it compares to the rest of the steels Mentioned.
 
I have a Matriarch 2 in VG-10 which will soon become a mushroom-type knife as soon as I have another, and ...

Curious, what do you plan on doing to a Matriarch to make it a mushroom-type knife, besides harvesting mushrooms with it (kinda assume blade grind modifications) ?
 
"This is S45VN, dude, I need 250 for this PM2, bro. It has 15 more VN than the regular version... "
And some peeps are bound to treat S30V/S35VN like pot metal now even though they are perfectly good steels.
Go big or go home. S110V has 65 more VN than S45V. And 75 more than S35V. Your life may depend on that extra 65 VN. Is your life worth an inferior S35V?
WWRD= What would Rambo do?Rambo-5-poznalismy-szczegoly-fabuly-oraz-postaci-ktore-pojawia-sie-w-filmie.jpg
 
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If anything, I'd say K390 is redundant to ZDP189, which are both non-stainless steels that prioritize edge retention; K390 has much worse corrosion resistance than ZDP189 (ZDP is like 20% Chromium, I'd say it's stainlessness is pretty close to D2), but (anecdotally at least) it is tougher.
VG10 is more of a basic all-around stainless steel.
Thank you, this is useful info to me because I did not buy K390 yet. My only fear was that ZDP was way more brittle than K390, is this not true?
 
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