Rivet/Pin & Tubing install?

[Emphasiski]

I've seen people say that they flare the outside ends of the tubing to help it stay in place. I've also seen it mentioned that you should drill your pin holes in your scales 1/32" smaller than the pin stock. Oh and I've also seen pictures of assembled/epoxied handles with the tubing and pin stock extending past the scales. How is this done if you hold it all with a vise while it's drying?

The pin stock holes makes sense to me, but I'm not to sure about flaring the tubing, I'm afraid the scales might crack. What are the best ways to secure these parts...aside from the epoxy during handle assembly?

Bob Loveless uses threaded pin stock (screws?) in his book. Should I be tapping my handle and dying my pin stock?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

If you peen your pins and flare your tubing, you can throw the epoxy away!
Tubing is flared into a chamfer in the scales. Pin holes should be drilled so that the pin stock FITS in the holes. Pins should be peened into a chamfer, and finished smooth; or peened and buffed round on top of the scales.
These methods are more difficult than epoxying and sticking some pins in holes. But, if you really want to be a knifemaker these skills should be learned and utilized.
Using threaded bolts is a secure method of attaching scales.

 

[Emphasiski]

If you peen your pins and flare your tubing, you can throw the epoxy away!
Tubing is flared into a chamfer in the scales. Pin holes should be drilled so that the pin stock FITS in the holes. Pins should be peened into a chamfer, and finished smooth; or peened and buffed round on top of the scales.
These methods are more difficult than epoxying and sticking some pins in holes. But, if you really want to be a knifemaker these skills should be learned and utilized.
Using threaded bolts is a secure method of attaching scales.

Do you know of a tutorial on doing this? Like the best way to drill the chamfers, best way to peen the pins into them? Also for the tubing?

I'm just as new to hardware and tools as I am to knife making. There isn't much room for tools and things like that when the military moves you for 7 years. So now that I'm out, I'm playing major catch up.

 

[bennyb]

I am very interested in learning more about this from experienced makers also.. I'm almost ready to install handles on my first blade, but wasn't completely sure how to go about it. Seems that a lot of maker use epoxy and I was also concerned with breaking handles by peening. Thanks Bill for the advice, I like the idea of not using epoxy and peening seems like the way to go. By the way Bill, I absolutely love your Leverletto!! Fantastic knife.:thumbup:

 

[Atlas Knife Company]

Just curious, where did you read to drill the pin holes smaller than the pins? That should cause your scales to crack/split. The pins are there to prevent shearing, the epoxy holds the scales on. Corby rivets are a different story. They hold the scales on AND prevent shearing. Especially useful if you are on planks above a pit of alligators. Then, you would definitely want corby rivets holding the planks together. The epoxy would not hold and you would get eaten.

When using pins, rough them up so they just barely fit in the hole, with a little epoxy around them. If the fit is too tight, then there is no epoxy around them, they will eventually loosen, unless you peen them.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The first thing you need is a 1 ounce hammer. When you get that, I'll tell you how to use it. Until you get the little hammer there is no use going further because you will try it with a larger hammer and it won't work. When peening, you only want to flare the tip of the rivet. This can not be consistently done with a regular hammer.
As far as chamfering, I usually use a pocket knife-but, I'm a dinosaur. I have crowned rifle and shotgun barrels with a knife. I seldom use a drill press, instead I use a flexible shaft machine by hand.

 

[bennyb]

Found a 1 oz hammer. Here's a link for anyone who's interested.

http://www.micromark.com/BALL-PEEN-HAMMER-1-OZ-HEAD,7742.html

I will post again when it arrives. Thanks alot Bill for your help!:thumbup:

 

[Emphasiski]

Found a 1 oz hammer. Here's a link for anyone who's interested.

http://www.micromark.com/BALL-PEEN-HAMMER-1-OZ-HEAD,7742.html

I will post again when it arrives. Thanks alot Bill for your help!:thumbup:

What was the shipping cost like?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

I prefer the cutler's hammer pictured at the top, but the little ball peen is fine.

 

[bennyb]

Bill. I've got my 1 o.z. hammer. I plan on using 1/4" ss pins and some type of hardwood. Any tips and suggestions are appreciated.

 

[george tichbourne]

I have only been making knives for 20 plus years and have never depended on peened pins all that time to hold scales in place. I epoxy all of my handle scale pins in place.

The thong tubes are sanded smooth with the handle scales then reamed with a countersink. After reaming with the countersink it LOOKS like the thong tube is flared but it is an optical illusion.

George

 

[Emphasiski]

I have only been making knives for 20 plus years and have never depended on peened pins all that time to hold scales in place. I epoxy all of my handle scale pins in place.

The thong tubes are sanded smooth with the handle scales then reamed with a countersink. After reaming with the countersink it LOOKS like the thong tube is flared but it is an optical illusion.

George

I like that idea.:thumbup:

 

[Bill DeShivs]

OK.
Lightly chamfer your holes in the scales. Leave 1/16" of your pins exposed on either side.
With the opposite side solidly supported on an anvil or block of steel, begin to tap, not pound, TAP the rivet with the flat head of the hammer. Use wrist action only-no arm movement. What you are trying to accomplish is upsetting the surface of the pin only, just mushrooming the head slightly. It may take many light, swift taps before you accomplish what you want. Work your way around the edge of the head-evening out the edges. I suggest you try it with a piece of rivet material held with pliers to see what is happening before you try it on a knife.
You want to leave the head domed, not flat. This gives you a bearing surface when you turn the knife over to do the other side.
Once the rivets are set, file (not sand) them flush-then sand them to match your handle. An alternative method is to leave them domed and buff them to smooth out the hammer marks.
Flaring tubing is easy-all you need is a 30-45 degree tapered punch. Chamfer the tubing hole a little more than you did the rivet holes. Again, leave 1/16" exposed on each side. Place on anvil, and use your little hammer to tap the punch until it begins to flare. Turn the knife over and do the same. Flip it again and tap a little more, etc.-until the tubing is secure. File flush, lightly chamfer the inside edges of the tubing with a sharp pocket knife, and sand smooth.

 

[bennyb]

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I use a riveter at work and the idea here is basically to try to simulate that by hand. My only concern is that if the wood were to shrink, the handle may become loose a bit. I guess, making sure the wood were seasoned/dried properly would be crucial.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Using properly seasoned handle material is important no matter how it's installed.