Rj Martin All CNC Flipper

R

RJ Martin

Joined
Oct 26, 1998
Messages
933
Since I have been reading so much about how CNC technology reduces the knifemaker’s effort to just “screwing the parts together”, I thought you’d like to see my new model, the Q-36 ACNC. The “ACNC” suffix designates “All CNC”. I hope you like the pictures.







Now, honestly, part of the reason this knife looks so great is that I did sneak in some handwork-I disc sanded the inner surface of the bolsters, and the scales. I also counterbored the bolsters for the screws. I also reamed the pivot hole on the blade so I could get the pivot pin through. I also tapped all the threaded holes in the frames and the clip holes in the bolster. And, I did grind the tabs down somewhat on all the titanium parts, but that was just so I wouldn’t cut myself on them. I did lap the frames, but, that’s done with a machine, because it’s the only way possible to make a flexible part truly flat. I also cut and ground the assembly screws to approximately the correct length so I could assemble the knife. I milled in the thumb ramp on the blade, but I cheated and used a manual milling machine (sorry!).

Now, there are a few things about this knife you should understand:

-It doesn’t lock open. Fitting the tang to the locking bar is a hand operation.
-It doesn’t stay closed. Bending the locking bar, pressing in the detent ball and finishing the face of the lock are all hand operations.
-There is no detent hole in the blade-Another hand operation.
-The clip is not bent, profiled or coated. That would require 7 hand operations.
-The blade profile is not finished. Sorry, that’s done by hand, too.
-The flats of the blade have a surface ground finish. Not the dead flat, parallel hand finished surfaces of the normal Q-36. Heck, that’s an hour on the disc sander with 4 different grades of paper, with constant measurement with a micrometer, followed by hand rubbing with 600 grit.
-The blade bevels aren’t ground out either. That would just be more hand work, holding the blade in my hands, using finer and finer belts to produce that lovely sweeping grind, symmetric plunge area and precisely controlled edge thickness.
-There is no scary sharp edge. That would require another 3 hand operations.
-The handle is a little rough on the hand. No hand shaping on a 10” wheel to create the double compound curvature, melted edges and silky satin finish. Boy, I’m glad because that’s an hour right there.
-The bearing pockets have not been final machined to a 4 micron finish, and aren’t at the correct depth. So, the knife isn’t real smooth when you open it. Oh well, that’s a stressful hand operation that requires a lot of effort and measuring to achieve a tolerance of .0005”
-There is no logo on the blade, for a good reason. I wouldn’t put my good name on a piece of crap. I’m a knifemaker, for God’s sake, not an assembler!

Now, I’m going to take that mess apart and, after about 6 hours of hand work, I will turn those rough, unfinished parts into this:




Everything that is done to the knife from now through completion is done by hand. My hands!

Stay Sharp,

RJ Martin
 
Well RJ, you can just have a student come in and do those hand operations after school, right?







Great, informative post. :D I love this place.
 
Point well made, but IMO the big skill is in coming up with the design ideas for those parts to be machine-made in the first place, not in making them pretty after they are cut. You obviously do a good job on both ends.
 
GREAT post RJ & AWESOME knife!!


I am hoping to someday own some of your amazing knives.
 
Well said, RJ. :thumbup:


Thanks for being willing to "front" this battle.


CNC machining is valuable to the industry....we can't let nay-sayers discourage it!!!
 
Daniel: Thanks. I don't consider it a battle. It's education-Something that Knifemakers, Knifemaking organizations and the forums all do, but, you can always do more. I set this post up to be a bit sarcastic, or a bit tongue-in-cheek, depending upon the interpretation of the readers. But, what you're looking at is real, and, therefore valid. The pictures show what I get after the CNC use is completed.

RJ
 
Ahhh, one of the GREATEST things about collecting and knives in general are the people. THIS post is a hoot!

I've long ago recognized the value of CNC and 'handmade' knives as being able to be integrated. My entry into customs was when my brother-inlaw designed and built the first James Bros. 'Cheyenne' auto. Lot's of CNC work, but LOTS of handwork. Like the above.

To those who like less machinery and more handwork, support the maker's who do that. I own a couple by Tai Goo for this reason. I ALSO own three knives by RJ Martin and one by Kevin Wilkins and Bob Terzuola's ATCF (along with a pair of Cheyenne's). They sit in my case proudly next to Daniel Winkler's hunter, too.

Room for everyone's desires without having to disclaim anyone's methods.

Thank you. :thumbup:

Coop

(BTW, my order is in for a new Q36. I'm pleased with that.)
 
Absolutely TERRIFIC post RJ! I commend you for your efforts to inform and educate. However, you must reconcile yourself to the fact that there are some - either blinded by bias or pursuing their own agenda - who will neither listen nor learn.

Roger
 
RJ,
Thank you for this post. It should go a long way in illustrating just how ill-conceived and specious the arguments against the use of technical assists are. They are just that, ASSISTS, the machines cannot conceive of or make anything, they just do a sh't load of grunt work that has nothing whatever to do with the ultimate refinement of the product.
Although I personally do not make my knives in quite the same way, I have always admired your efforts for their meticulous finish and professionalism. That goes as well for other like you.
I note that you were recently interviewed by Blade Mag. concerning the realities of earning a living as a full time maker and you were quick to observe that "the numbers get ugly fast". Many of those protesting your method of producing product may indeed be part time makers without the hard finacial realities of a full time maker breathing down their collective necks. IMHO there is some factor of envy in play here directed at the successes enjoyed by makers such as yourself. Just keep doing your thing the way you do it and let the haters out there wherever they may be just spin their wheels.
 
Cool post, RJ thank you!


Seems the big question to me though is, do you make your own lunch or job that out? ;)


R/S
Les George
 
The CNC will get you close to a finished knife just as a bandsaw and a file or a forge and a file.

Is a knife made using a grinder or a belt less handmade than one made using files?

Is a knife made from a purchased bar less handmade than one forged?
 
This cracked me up!

Seriously - you need to buy one of those new CNC, those where you feed blocks of steel, carbon fiber, etc, on one side, and get one of the 12 trillion possible knife design combinations on the other side, with detent hole and all. Those are much better. :D
 
Joss said:
This cracked me up!

Seriously - you need to buy one of those new CNC, those where you feed blocks of steel, carbon fiber, etc, on one side, and get one of the 12 trillion possible knife design combinations on the other side, with detent hole and all. Those are much better. :D
Click to expand...


They only work in Chinese programming language, and they cost over ONE MILLION dollars.(Insert Dr. Evil voice here):D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I want an RJ Martin kit knife!! LOL great post Mr Martin. BTW, I really love my Avenger model. Thanks for "assembling" such great knives.
 
You know, it's funny how people make judgement calls when they have so little knowledge. I wonder if these people are aware what would actually go into creating a knife that was made entirely by CNC. I would love to ask any of these individuals if they :

1. Can create a model of the knife in Solidworks, Pro E, Alias, Catia, etc.
2. Purchase, Program, and operate a 3-5 axis CNC mill
3. Understand tolerances and precision machining
4. Can source raw materials
5. Understand even the most basic aspects of fit and finishing. Even CNC machined parts require clean-up work.
6. Have ever worked on an assembly line. Even assembly requires knowledge and skill. Plus, if the parts aren't properly toleranced, or the assembler lacks the necessary skills, the knife will never work right.


The list goes on and on. Just operating a CNC mill properly is a skill. Hell, working a manually operated Bridgeport is a skill. My point? Even if RJ's knives were produced 100% with CNC operations, it woudl require an extremely skilled individual to make them work. The bottom line is that CNC machining can do some amazing stuff, but the hand work involved is where the magic happens.

Thanks for bringing this issue to the forefront RJ. - Jim
 
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