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rlinger and itrade...got me a motor too, gots some questions though...

S

SkaerE

Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
428
ok, first off, is the white or the black wire the negative? (i assumed the black, but neither is marked)

second, where on a controller should a heat sync go? (once again, i am assuming atop a bunch of resistors - at least i think thats what they are :) they are about 1 cm x 2 cm x 1 cm and look like little firebricks. by the way, i didnt buy a controller, im using the controller from a 1.5 HP treadmill that i had layin around. it seems to work, but it gets REAL hot really fast. guess the heat sync should go on the hottest part (of course) maybe with a fan on top of it?

third, are you both running a pulley off of your motor to gain more mechanical advantage or just running the motor as a direct drive unit?

thanks guys, im very excited about this motor. my previous one i could stop with hand pressure, this one is much stronger.
 
I am not clear on your speed controler,But on my Heat sync it just mounted to the back of my speed control.
 
Yo SkaerE,

First the motor:

Is there a fan on it or in it? That's required. You'll have to hook up something to keep the heat down. I used an alternator fan from a car to pull air thru.

The leads don't really matter. You can switch them to change direction. Unless the motor is unidirectional, but I haven't heard of that.

Next the controller heat sync:

Again my controller had a heat sync designed for it. There were some bridges (SCR?) ... some electronic deallies with metal tabs on the top. I think that's what you've found. Should be 3 leads on them. If they are hot then that's what you need to cool. Mine were mounted on a piece of aluminum. This, in turn is bolted to the heat sync.

However, if they are resistors and they don't have a mounting hole for a sync, then you might have problems.

On my controller you have to select a resistor to match the motor size. The bigger the motor the less the resistance. The vendor picked out my resistor for me. So, it could be that the controller isn't matched to the motor.

Did the motor come from the treadmill too?

Let me know,

Steve
 
The SCR's are what you want to heat sink. Those little fire brick looking things are power resisitors (two leads, one on each end). They may need sinking also but I can't tell without being there.

The SCR's look as Itrade described and there will already be a hole on its metal tab for mounting to a heat sink. You must be careful to insulate the tab from the heat sink. Go to radio shack, or such, and get some mica insulating discs (made just for this). That tab is not floating. It is internally connected to one of the three leads (I can't remember which. It has been too long since I was a bench technician.) You may have several SCR's on your DC drive.

At a minimum cool the DC drive with a fan.

I use a set of pulleys on my setup. Here are some pictures: http://riflestocks.tripod.com/coote.html


Roger
 
ok, lemme see if i can explain this a little better. pictures will follow in a few.

the controller is the controller from a tread mill (yanked everything out of the treadmill.) part of it gets very hot very fast (circled in red) motor is connected to the outputs (in blue)

DC_controller.jpg


the motor is not the orignial motor, i destroyed that in a horrible shop accident. the motor is one of the itrade/sciplus specials. much more powerful, same voltage. the first motor was rated at 1 HP at 90V 1.5 at 120 V. i have the fan from the old motor that i will use to blow air through the new one (connect it to one of the shafts)

I know this isnt the best setup right now, but i want it to work for a little while, at least until i can afford a new controller.

this is the whole dealie (actual controller part, and the part where you change the speed.

108-0826_IMG.jpg
 
Those are power resistors that you have circled in red. They normally run warm to hot depending. The most common problem with power resistors is that the leads get hot and cause their solder connection to the ciruit board to fail. Usually you will see these resistors with long leads so as to raise them above the circuit board. On the underneith of the circuit board you may see some SCR's attached to the black frame with one screw through the tab of each SCR. If so, that is the heat sink - the frame.

Your controller was chosen for a lighter motor. It may work very well for a long time with the larger motor. It may not. A small fan would not hurt since you are running a larger motor.

EDIT: HOLD THE PHONE: I see them. I see four SCR's attached to the frame. It looks like there are more but the line cord in the photo is in the way of me seeing better. They are seen in photo #1 at the bottom of photo. And just as I suggested they are screwed through their tab to the frame for heat sinking. A little fan may still help.

Nice photo's.

Roger
 
Yup rlinger, I think those are them too. That part of the panel at the bottom of the pic is what would need the heat sync. Just bolt one on.

If those brick things (resistors) are heating up, you might be in trouble. A small fan or something might save the day or two, but probably not a hundred days.


SkaerE, you pulled that out of the treadmill and hooked it up! That's sooo cool. I thought about that, but was afraid I'd never get it to work.

I suggest monitoring ebay for a deal. That treadmill controller might work until something better pops up.


Steve

Dang this is fun! Wanna see my $15 shop vac?
 
Power resistors are made to run fairly warm. I have seen some heat sinked but that is not the norm. I have also seen some fryed. They will usually crack when over stressed by heat. When they crack they open.
My guess is you're okay on the power resistors because I think the SCR(s) will fail first, if they fail.

Put a small fan on the thing if it is convenient to do so and be sure to fuse the line cord and motor.

Roger
 
be sure to fuse the line cord and motor.

just so i understand, you mean add a fuse between the motor and the controller and another between the controller and the wall socket?

if thats what you mean, what type/voltage/amperage fuses should i look for?

im really quite lost on most things electronic. mostly because ive never been taught about them. one day ill get around to it ;)

thanks a bunch fellas!
 
Yup, I think he means 2 of them. One between the wall and the controller and another between the controller and motor.

The motor is rated for 14 amps, so a 20 amp fuse should protect it. Let's see if the motor is pulling 14 amps at 90 volts that's 1260 watts. If the input is 120 volts then that's 10.5 amps. However the controller wastes some on heat and things so it's probably more like a draw of ..... how the heck would I know!!!

OK for my setup the manual says I need a 25 amp fuse on the output and 25 amp on the input. But your treadmill controller is a different ball of wax. It might self destruct some day, but when it does you don't want to harm the motor or your goldfish or something.

You can always play it safe and just use a 20 amp on each side and call it a day. I'd have to look but I believe I'm using 20 amp on each side. That's what I had on hand. A too small fuse might be an inconvenience; too big is a disaster.

Fuses are there to protect the equipment and wires from other pieces of equipment.

Steve

PS don't forget the electrical rated fire extinguisher ;) ;)
 
Go to a Radio Shack, or whatever you have there, and get two 'in-line fuse holders'. Put one of them in-line with the BLACK wire that connects to the wall socket. Black is what is called by some the 'hot' wire. Use a three prong plug on the line cord too so you get the proper polarization at the wall socket. Place another fuse holder in line with a motor wire that connects to the controller (DC drive).

Now you have your fuse holders in place. You can go up or down in fuse size at ease. Use a 20 amp fast blow fuse for the line cord (AC voltage input to controller). Start with a 10 amp fast blow fuse for the motor. If you have problems with it blowing (probably upon power on or under heavy load) change to a 10 amp slow blow fuse. I used to know the designations: I think the fast blow fuse is a 'AGC' designation. You may need to go up a little in fuse size for the motor but I don't think so if you use a 10 amp slow blow fuse for the motor. If you go too high on the motor end you may well comprimise the life of your controller. I base my motor fuse consideration upon what you have told use about the original motor size that came with the controller. You may need to increase the motor fuse size inorder to keep it running. In the mean time keep an eye open for a 1 1/2 HP DC drive. I am guessing your current drive is a 1 HP - 10 amp output. Just a guess based on what I see from the picture and what you have written.

Use 250 volt rated fuses for both AC input and DC output.

Roger
 
Treadmill motors:D :D :D
Thats so cool...I am running 2 of them at the present myself.
Now all this teqnical stuff is something I don't understand at all.But when I pulled my first one out of a old treadmill,it was getting hot and blowing the fuse it had in line.I started to pitch it at the time,Then I got a hair brained idea.what would happen if I bypassed the fuse.Guess what,The motor ran better and hasn't gotten hot again since,been set up this way for almost 3 years now.
Just thought I would add that.
Bruce
 
Bruce,

Your note to this thread interested me. I considered it today as I drove down the road. It's a no-brainer that the fuse was too low rated for the application you were using the motor for. It consistantly blew and that's the obvious reason why. Because it was too low in current rating there was a significant voltage drop across the fuse while the motor was running before the fuse finally failed. This caused the motor to be starved for enough voltage to service the load that was on it. The motor over heated. There must be a voltage drop across a fuse to cause it to fail. Current is equal throughout a circuit but voltage drop multiplied by the current flow will equal power which caused the fuse to blow.

We don't usually fix things that ain't broke - - but I will bet a larger fuse of the apropriate current rating will both rectify the previous problem and also lend itself to safe guarding your DC drive (unless the drive has an armature fuse on it already).

Roger
 
Thanks Rlinger....
Now that you have totally set my mushed mind (from a all nighter in the shop)into a final jelled state :D
I think I understand what you are saying.But since I had took the fuse out over 2 years ago on both the treadmill motors I am running and they are working great I think I will stick with the if it aint broke don't fix it mode at the moment.I didn't expect them to last this long really.I fifgured they were a step towards getting a full sized regular DC motor and controller.I have been pleased with them anyway and would probably put another one on if something happened to these.I have one of these on my metal cutting bandsaw and it works great.
Bruce
 
I am very pleased to see that a master maker is using the type motor I chose too. I just orderd another one this week for a home made variable speed buffer.

Roger
 
Thanks for the compliment,though I feel I am far from being a master maker.I originally used the motor due to finances,but see no reason to change it as long as it is working.The way I used to look at it,was that the motor didn't cost any more than a belt order.Thus just add a little more to the cost of the knives and keep one extra motor on hand at all times (though I don't anymore) and use them as a disposable motor.But after I have used mine for as long as I have ,I see no reason why not to use them.After all a 2 horse motor is a 2 horse motor isn't it.
Bruce
 
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