Rmd has arrived but has dull blade :(

I'm not trolling. This knife was seriously dull. So dull in fact it wouldn't cut paper. I literally could run my finger along the edge using full pressure. This is why I am upset with Swamp Rat. Indeed I brought this thread to life because it happened to me too.

Actually if you do a google search you'll find quite a few people that have reported butter knife dull knives shipped from Swamp. Another reason why this thread has been brought up. Apparently Swamp continues to ship dull knives.

If It were semi sharp, I would not be complaining. But trust me busse fan, this was dull!

Anyone who spends 153 dollars on a knife expects it to arrive sharp. Of course, obviously not you. (Spyderphreak)

I have no idea why you feel that receiving an extremely dull knife at this price point is satisfactory? I wonder what you are smoking?
 
Guys lets calm down a little.

duro, I would love to make this right for you and apologize for the bad experience. You can shoot me a PM or email the swamp at ratcustomerservice@toast.net and we will do whatever we can to get this taken care of.
 
Duro, I am a pretty reasonable guy. It is well understood that at times these knives don't ship shaving sharp (:foot: and I never stood behind Busse on that particular point), but I really have a hard time believing it arrived as dull as you claim. Really, it couldn't even cut paper??? You couldn't cut your finger using all of your strength??? :rolleyes: That is pretty dang hard to believe.

Honestly though, I could care less if my knives arrived without even being sharpened. No, really. If I'm going to really use it, I will spend a few minutes (literally) and make the edge the way I want it. It is just too simple to do with a belt sander and the proper belts. Even thinning out an otherwise obtuse edge on a thick blade (not just Bussekin either) takes a small fraction of the time you say it took you to get your 23 degree edge on your RMD, so why waste your time? Look up a few of my posts where I've shown some of my convexing/thinning work.

Sorry, Josh. --content removed--
 
SpyderPhreak said:
First of all, did you realize that this thread was nearly 2 years old when you resurrected it yesterday? :p

Second,



Seriously??? Just a bit sarcastic there, don't you think? :rolleyes: You're borderline trolling here.

There is just no way it came that dull directly from the shop. :thumbdn: Go get yourself a belt sander (even a cheapy) and some good, dedicated-for-metal belts, and that job would have taken you 15 minutes, tops. Seriously. And if you honestly think Swamp Rat should compensate you for "wear on your stones", you're smoking some really good stuff there. :rolleyes:

Please, read more, post less. And stop the trolling. If you think I sound harsh, that is because it was intended. Please just listen and take the advice, and be a bit smarter about how you post in the future.
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I received my RMD a couple of weeks ago, and it also came rather dull. I ran it through my Sharpmaker, and it will now shave and cut paper, but it still doesn't feel as sharp as it could be. I'll work on it some more a little later when I have some time. The point is, knives don't always come from the factory well-sharpened. While for me it's not a big deal, as I like doing my own sharpening, I can see how some people might be disappointed. I wouldn't consider voicing displeasure trolling, so long as he also takes note of whatever Swamp Rat does to ensure his complete satisfaction.
 
Dood, I wouldn't type the description of how dull it was if it weren't true. Now you understand why I'm a bit upset about it.

Honestly, you wait over a month...get your knife, and it's like that. It was a real slap in the face for sure. Maybe I'll have a look at the belt sander method, but regardless; it shouldn't come that way from busse land. Really left a bad taste in my mouth. I even pondered on how the edge arrived the way that it did. My theory is that they're very shrewd about buying belts. The employees must be allocated a certain amount of time on the sharpener and that's that. Or maybe the belt needed replacing and the employee thought it was fine and didn't bother to really check.

SpyderPhreak said:
Duro, I am a pretty reasonable guy. It is well understood that at times these knives don't ship shaving sharp (:foot: and I never stood behind Busse on that particular point), but I really have a hard time believing it arrived as dull as you claim. Really, it couldn't even cut paper??? You couldn't cut your finger using all of your strength??? :rolleyes: That is pretty dang hard to believe.

Honestly though, I could care less if my knives arrived without even being sharpened. No, really. If I'm going to really use it, I will spend a few minutes (literally) and make the edge the way I want it. It is just too simple to do with a belt sander and the proper belts. Even thinning out an otherwise obtuse edge on a thick blade (not just Bussekin either) takes a small fraction of the time you say it took you to get your 23 degree edge on your RMD, so why waste your time? Look up a few of my posts where I've shown some of my convexing/thinning work.

Sorry, Josh. --content removed--
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Hindsight said:
Guys lets calm down a little.

duro, I would love to make this right for you and apologize for the bad experience. You can shoot me a PM or email the swamp at ratcustomerservice@toast.net and we will do whatever we can to get this taken care of.
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Thanks. I didn't know you replied. I sent an email out to you again. I'm not asking a lot. Just to refund my shipping, since I was able to get the knife sharp in the end, but my stones aren't cheap.

I feel as though I have to hold your company accountable in some way, as this is a problem that you can fix, only if we tell you about it.

Thanks for making it right,

Erik
 
Maybe I'm out of line here, but I sharpen every knife I get regardless of where it comes from or how sharp it initially was. I'm afraid I can't get all that worked-up over someone shipping out a dull knife. Hell, Randall has been doing that for 75 years now, and nobody's complained about it yet. Well, not that much, anyway.
 
duro, I believe ya as it to being dull, I have mine on video I was gonna review, pulled it out of the box and was able to press extremely hard thumb pressure where it left a dent with not so much as a scratch, pretty lame really, others have been lucky, that was my 7th over time that wouldn't cut paper.

although holding them accountable for return shipping would be the right thing, not to replace your stones, at some point you would have to sharpen it from your use.
 
duro said:
http://jungletraining.com/forums/sh...e-you-guys-thoughts-on-Swamp-Rat-knives/page2
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Shocker, Busse (kin) bashing on an ESEE forum.

I've received and bought Busses/kin that were both fairly sharp, or fairly dull. It's luck of the draw, but I know if I'm not happy with any of them, they'll take care of me. You have to cover shipping to them, it's $10 if it's done right. Have you ever bought a gun and it needed to go back to the factory? Rarely do companies cover shipping to them, hell some companies (like Colt) screw you all the way, shipping both ways and labor.

I've also picked up some custom knives (not Busses) that were $1500+ and saw little flaws in the grind or fit and finish. If you look hard enough, you'll find a flaw in anything.

I'm thinking the most expensive Busse I've bought (to this date) was a Custom Shop A2 American Kensei at the last KC show, cost $897 plus tax if I remember right. Edge sucked, grind was a bit off. Oh well, it's rare and it's a safe queen so I don't care.

All my users I reprofile to my edge anyway so I don't care either.

Would it be nice if they all came razor sharp? Yeah, but at the same time EVERYBODY likes there edges in a particular way (I know I'm anal about them), so you can't please everyone even if they came all sharp.

Other companies have known edge issues. I love Grayman styling, but a commonly heard problem is the edge. And it's funny that the guy in that link mentioned Bark River. I always liked the styling, but if you look, you can find reviews how the edges came too thin and they chipped out making fuzzysticks; and try and look up Mike Stewart with all the things he's done in the past.
 
Oops. Don't bring Mike Stewart into this. First, because it's completely irrelevant, and second, because the folks at Busse have some morals, which Mike clearly doesn't. Let's keep it on track here, OK?
 
Hindsight said:
Guys lets calm down a little.

duro, I would love to make this right for you and apologize for the bad experience. You can shoot me a PM or email the swamp at ratcustomerservice@toast.net and we will do whatever we can to get this taken care of.
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I would have just sharpened it myself and moved on with life.BTW,I have received a much more expensive knife from another maker pretty dull,no big deal!But if it bothers you why not just contact them and let them make it right for you without kicking up dust on the forum?Just saying, obviously these folks will do anything with in reason to make a customer happy.
 
Samael said:
Oops. Don't bring Mike Stewart into this. First, because it's completely irrelevant, and second, because the folks at Busse have some morals, which Mike clearly doesn't. Let's keep it on track here, OK?
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ONLY mentioned because the link provided mentioned him.

But I agree.
 
It's not a bad thing to bring these things up in public. It will hopefully lead to Swamp Rat being more diligent about shipping out well-sharpened knives and avoid these incidents in the future. Keeping silent does more harm than good in the long run.
 
MajorLonghorn said:
It's not a bad thing to bring these things up in public. It will hopefully lead to Swamp Rat being more diligent about shipping out well-sharpened knives and avoid these incidents in the future. Keeping silent does more harm than good in the long run.
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I agree :thumbup:

Or perhaps we could collectively recommend a target edge angle for various Swamp Rat knives?
For example, I received my RMD with a very fat edge from the shop, I'd estimate 30 dps, edge thickness ~0.04" at the shoulder. 30 dps = 60-inclusive, forming an equilateral triangle with the bevel shoulders. That is a robust edge. It was sharp enough to carve wood, even sharp enough to slice printer-paper, but those are stiff media. Flesh is more pliable, it deforms around the edge as pressure is exerted. Pushing that edge against a tomato or summer-sausage wouldn't produce a clean cut without quite a bit of force, and the results weren't pretty.
Grind that edge down to 15 dps keeping the same spine-apex width, the primary bevel doesn't raise shoulder thickness much and the uncoated edge-bevel width roughly doubles but is still < 1/8" thick., but now the edge-thickness at the same depth of penetration is ~ half that of the 30dps edge, requiring less than half the cutting force to do the same amount of work!

"But," you may ask, "wouldn't cutting the edge-angle in half remove sufficient supporting metal to weaken that edge?"
SR101 (52100) at 60 Rc is hard enough to resist rolling at very low angles (much lower than 15 dps) but will likely chip if impacted against hard metal or rock even at 30dps. How much edge-durability does one gain with such a thick edge compared to the cutting performance one gains from a 15dps edge? Add to this that a thinner edge is easier to resharpen (an important factor given SR101's Rc and wear resistance), and another bevel could easily be added at the apex as damage does occur.


For reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaHR9GJe2e4&feature=plcp


If Swamp Rat knives are really among the toughest in the world, I think the edge-geometry should reflect that superiority.

Out of curiosity, I put some calipers on some of my bussekin, measuring thickness at the bevel shoulder behind the edge after resharpening each to 15dps:
Rodent Solution: ~0.03"
HRLM: ~0.04"
SYKCO 511: ~0.08"
Hog Muk (LE): ~0.02"

The 511 measurement was somewhat surprising to me as it illustrates a difference between the RMD and 511 I hadn't heard mentioned before - the 511 is ~2x thicker at the edge! This will translate to a stronger blade with inferior cutting performance. *shrug*
Please note, as Bussekin are semi-custom, these measurements may vary from knife to knife. Also, all but the Muk are coated blades...



EDIT: I've been exchanging e-mails with the shop (Lora), and I asked about slimming down the edge angle. She told me that, after speaking with the production manager, "He informed me that if you would like to have a thinner edge... you only have to specify that when you order."

So there it is. The shop is willing to accommodate thinner grinds, but customers need to specify that when they order.
I guess that if we want the Swamp to make their standard edges more acute, customers will have to make some noise.

Sooo... how popular is that idea, and what would be the best way to go about it?
 
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Customizing the edge angle is a perfect solution. It could be recommended that they include that on the order form and it should be all good. They could state their recommended, default angle, and offer an alternative for those who want a keener edge.
 
I don't mind what they ship out, so long as it cuts. I've yet to hear back from swamp regarding my resolution to make me feel whole, and continue to support Swamp Rat Knifeworks.

Rodent 6 came nice and sharp. Could shave the arm hair right off. RMD came dull, would not cut paper....
 
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Bowxpress said:
duro, I believe ya as it to being dull, I have mine on video I was gonna review, pulled it out of the box and was able to press extremely hard thumb pressure where it left a dent with not so much as a scratch, pretty lame really, others have been lucky, that was my 7th over time that wouldn't cut paper.

although holding them accountable for return shipping would be the right thing, not to replace your stones, at some point you would have to sharpen it from your use.
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Seems like this is an ongoing problem. Should I post the name of the person, and number of whom sharpened my knife? I kind of feel like that's throwing them under the bus. The company as a whole should take ownership.

I realize Rat takes awhile to respond, but they usually would of got back to me by now. I feel like I'm being blown off. I think taking care of the cost I paid for shipping, 15 dollars, is totally reasonable. I'm still a bit bewildered about the fact that they didn't even offer to cover return shipping when I explained the situation.

I will try reaching out once more, If I don't get in touch with anyone from Rat who can resolve this, I'm simply going to update my membership to gold and sell off what Swamp Rat products I own.
 
....I appreciate this forum and should probably update my membership to gold anyway. It's nice to hear feedback from others. The reason why sharpening is a big deal, is because I hate doing it. I like to get in, and out. I paid a good penny so that I would already have a sharp knife, which would make touching up pretty painless. I could think of a million other things I could be doing instead of spending a few hours sharpening. I realize some enjoy it. I hate cleaning my guns too....
 
The Busse crew continues to have my back. I was refunded the 15 dollars for shipping, which I feel is fair. I think I will just specify I need an extremely sharp knife in the order comments on future purchases.

Thanks
 
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