Rockstead Knives, worth the price tag?

[Scrim]

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[Scrim]

As in edge-trailing? Yes. I alternate strokes from handle-to-tip then tip-to-handle. Yes I eyeball it all, that way I make sure I'm hitting the apex.

Nerves of steel my friend.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Nerves of steel my friend.

Perhaps, but after all, Rockstead recommends sharpening in a similar manner.

I was a little hesitant to try sharpening it for the first time, I won't lie; but if you're a proficient sharpener, then it's just another walk in the park

 

[Haze]

I was just pointing out an observation that people do indeed have trouble with sharpening as I have seen them, their knives and what was done to them. We thankfully don't have those troubles. The edge retention on any Rockstead is indeed superb, I have have had great results, but there is that "but"... As for the finish thing though.....

I have found that to keep the geometry correct and in keeping with the original condition it is just not possible to keep the finish clean. You have to put the flat of the knife on the sharpening medium or you're just creating a secondary convexed micro-bevel. (This is the issue nearly everyone has). There is not really anything wrong with that edge but that isn't keeping the "Rockstead edge" you payed for and it leads to problems of some sort sooner or later.

This brings me to my real and main point...... Rockstead are touted as having near infinate edge retention, one of if not the best convex ground blades there is, that as well as one of the cleanest and best finished/coated grinds and blades there are. (that's what you're paying for).
This is in real use not the case, the knives do need sharpened and while not as regularly as a "normal" knife they do indeed dull with use and just can't be kept alive with that strop for long. The resharpening can't be done "properly" with out damage to the finish..... the finish that you payed big $$$$ for because you would never* have to sharpen the knife and so marr that expensive finish. This leaves me (perhaps a little pedanticly) with the question, what then really is the point and what am I paying for ?

This is what I disagree with. I've restored the convex edge without any issue, and the finish still looks brand new. I also find that my edge retention is much better than any knife I have in my collection and I have many; they all see the same type of use.

Steel will be steel, and doing stupid things with a Rockstead will yield stupid results. My YXR7 blade is definately not magical. It definately holds up better than my other knives though.

I'm not arguing, just respectfully disagreeing. My experience has been different.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

I was just pointing out an observation that people do indeed have trouble with sharpening as I have seen them, their knives and what was done to them. We thankfully don't have those troubles. The edge retention on any Rockstead is indeed superb, I have have had great results, but there is that "but"... As for the finish thing though.....

I have found that to keep the geometry correct and in keeping with the original condition it is just not possible to keep the finish clean. You have to put the flat of the knife on the sharpening medium or you're just creating a secondary convexed micro-bevel. (This is the issue nearly everyone has). There is not really anything wrong with that edge but that isn't keeping the "Rockstead edge" you payed for and it leads to problems of some sort sooner or later.

This brings me to my real and main point...... Rockstead are touted as having near infinate edge retention, one of if not the best convex ground blades there is, that as well as one of the cleanest and best finished/coated grinds and blades there are. (that's what you're paying for).
This is in real use not the case, the knives do need sharpened and while not as regularly as a "normal" knife they do indeed dull with use and just can't be kept alive with that strop for long. The resharpening can't be done "properly" with out damage to the finish..... the finish that you payed big $$$$ for because you would never* have to sharpen the knife and so marr that expensive finish. This leaves me (perhaps a little pedanticly) with the question, what then really is the point and what am I paying for ?

I understand what you're saying now, I think I misunderstood you.

However, I slightly disagree still I infact do put the entire bevel on my sharpening medium, much like sharpening a Scandi grind. I think the method of sharpening depends on the grind, whether it is Honzukuri or Shinogizukuri.

With Shinogizukuri, it would be proper to put a secondary-convexed edge onto it. With Honzukuri, you must use a sharpening medium that will promote a convex shape, yet be tangent to the curvature that is naturally found on the stock edge. If you put a Honzukuri grind onto a flat surface, you can see that the apex is not touching unless you roll it towards the edge. In other words, the bevel will not sit flat like a Scandi grind would. That said, using a sharpening medium that has some flex to it, you are still able to maintain the "Rockstead edge".

This also brings me to the finish. I chose 2000 grit sandpaper so that the mirror finish will still be kept pristine. After some time on 2000 grit, I use the denim strop (with aluminum oxide) which helps further the mirror polish. So any imperfections caused by the sandpaper will be corrected when using the strop.

 

[Sikael]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...A0.H0.Xrockstead.TRS0&_nkw=rockstead&_sacat=0

Damn those industrious cloners!... but those all appear to have a satin finish, nothing close to the Rockstead mirror-polish. It doesn't look near as convincing as some of the other brands I've seen counterfeited.

I guess they blew their 5$ budget on the box... that finish isn't easy to fake, but I guess they might manage it. The second one (as of... now? I'm sure it'll change soon) works up a nice shiny edge, but none of them used the resolution that enables the 'scroll-over close-ups' (?), for obvious reasons. Hand-rubbed satin finish at best.

These guys aren't really trying to pass themselves off as Rocksteads, but some might try to get the high prices, with a bit more time and work. Greed is the deepest well-spring of human ingenuity, as no one likes to say.

 

[Haze]

Yup, "apple seed" as was mentioned earlier in the thread. A well performing blade grind indeed, if ever there was one. :thumbup:

I was always carefull never to start creating the secondary bevel, once it's there it's not going away. The whole grind needs to be addressed as the "edge", as you point out with Honzukuri Vs Shinogizukuri. The finish on the knife in your pics still looks clean, I had obvious marks from sharpening pretty much right off the bat, it was still a fine high grit finish but clearly marked up.

I understand what you're saying now, I think I misunderstood you.

However, I slightly disagree still I infact do put the entire bevel on my sharpening medium, much like sharpening a Scandi grind. I think the method of sharpening depends on the grind, whether it is Honzukuri or Shinogizukuri.

With Shinogizukuri, it would be proper to put a secondary-convexed edge onto it. With Honzukuri, you must use a sharpening medium that will promote a convex shape, yet be tangent to the curvature that is naturally found on the stock edge. If you put a Honzukuri grind onto a flat surface, you can see that the apex is not touching unless you roll it towards the edge. In other words, the bevel will not sit flat like a Scandi grind would. That said, using a sharpening medium that has some flex to it, you are still able to maintain the "Rockstead edge".

This also brings me to the finish. I chose 2000 grit sandpaper so that the mirror finish will still be kept pristine. After some time on 2000 grit, I use the denim strop (with aluminum oxide) which helps further the mirror polish. So any imperfections caused by the sandpaper will be corrected when using the strop.

 

[Scrim]

Damn those industrious cloners!... but those all appear to have a satin finish, nothing close to the Rockstead mirror-polish. It doesn't look near as convincing as some of the other brands I've seen counterfeited.

I guess they blew their 5$ budget on the box... that finish isn't easy to fake, but I guess they might manage it. The second one (as of... now? I'm sure it'll change soon) works up a nice shiny edge, but none of them used the resolution that enables the 'scroll-over close-ups' (?), for obvious reasons. Hand-rubbed satin finish at best.



These guys aren't really trying to pass themselves off as Rocksteads, but some might try to get the high prices, with a bit more time and work. Greed is the deepest well-spring of human ingenuity, as no one likes to say.

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Not confirming or denying that I own a fake Rockstead in addition to a real one. I'm just sayin', not a bad mirror polish for a cheap knife. Just sayin'.

 

[USS Worden 352]

This is a very interesting thread. I've had a few questions about Rocksteads and this is helping to clear the air.

Have you guys tried the 3M papers that are sold at Auto-Repair shops? I've seen as high as 5000 grit. They are made from this soft foam-like material, which seems like it would compliment the geometry on Rockstead knives quite well. Also, wouldn't the finer grit yield a higher quality edge (compared to 2000 grit; like BBender uses)?

It might be worth a shot if you guys haven't already tried it.

 

[Sikael]

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Not confirming or denying that I own a fake Rockstead in addition to a real one. I'm just sayin', not a bad mirror polish for a cheap knife. Just sayin'.

No judgements coming from my direction.

I get that sending cloners money is a bit like feeding the bears, and it supports a 'parasitic' economy that may damage the reputation of hard-working knife-makers, etc., but getting preachy about it... no thanks. Some people use clones as a way to 'try before you buy'... they're not going to give you the same performance as a Rockstead, but it's a way to see if you like the basic look and feel of a knife before committing to an 800$ purchase. I'm sure more than one clone has sold a customer on the real thing.

But yeah, not a bad finish at all. That'll teach me to never doubt the skills of Chinese fake-makers.

 

[Misanthropia]

This is a very interesting thread. I've had a few questions about Rocksteads and this is helping to clear the air.

Have you guys tried the 3M papers that are sold at Auto-Repair shops? I've seen as high as 5000 grit. They are made from this soft foam-like material, which seems like it would compliment the geometry on Rockstead knives quite well. Also, wouldn't the finer grit yield a higher quality edge (compared to 2000 grit; like BBender uses)?

It might be worth a shot if you guys haven't already tried it.

I have both the 3000 and 5000 grit Trizact sanding pads, and I would say the finish is way rougher than you would expect from those grits. Definitely not a mirror polish, but a fine satin. I know because I tried to use them for stropping and it left very fine scratches right above the secondary bevel.

Thanks Blues Bender for the pictures, I plan on picking up a Higo at some point and it's nice to know the finish won't necessarily get ruined. How do you feel about the blade to handle ratio? In the pictures I've seen, it looks to be really poor.

 

[Sikael]

Great thread and excellent posts, particularly from Blues Bender and Haze. :thumbup: These are exactly the problems that worried me about buying -- and using -- a Rockstead.

If there is a tendency for Rockstead owners to expect too much of their knife, the YouTube and knife show demonstrations are partly responsible. But the customer has a responsibility to read and pay attention to the information a manufacturer provides concerning use and maintenance, and exercise a bit of common sense. It's not forged from adamantium; there's no Zen monks reciting the Heart Sutra to alter the molecular structure of the steel... although that might work... ([video]https://youtu.be/xGhYtHeI3SQ?t=86[/video]) It's just very well made. It will get dull. As pointed out, unrealistic expectations often result in people misusing their Rockstead, then becoming annoyed and disappointed when the finish gets marked up, and it needs a sharpening they're unprepared to handle themselves. No magic or chanting involved after all.

The construction site will quickly settle questions about a knife's performance as a 'hard-use folder'. I respect BB's taste in knives, willingness to put expensive, beautifully crafted blades to work without hesitation, and well-written, thoughtful posts. The idea of sharpening that mirror-polished blade is still intimidating, but the method Blues Bender described so well makes me feel confident I could probably figure it out without completely f***ing up a 900$ knife... but practicing my free-hand technique on something cheaper sounds like a good plan.

 

[matus]

Excellent thread with lots of good information. From the online photos the knives make relatively "thick" impression. I am just wondering how do these cuts stuff that is thicker (e.g. an apple). I mean - I do not doubt they DO cut , I am just curios whether wedging (knife getting stuck like cutting a carrot with thick knife) occurs.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Excellent thread with lots of good information. From the online photos the knives make relatively "thick" impression. I am just wondering how do these cuts stuff that is thicker (e.g. an apple). I mean - I do not doubt they DO cut , I am just curios whether wedging (knife getting stuck like cutting a carrot with thick knife) occurs.

Like I stated in your other thread, they will cut fine. It's when you start getting into "overbuilt" knives like Medford and Direware that sliceability becomes an issue...

Don't overthink it...

 

[matus]

Don't overthink it...

Yeah, I do tend to do that ... helps rarely.

 

[knifehoarder]

Thanks for the info, Blues Bender. I picked up a Higo and it's great. I would only buy one to use, and I don't know if I would've had the nerve to get one and actually carry it until reading your posts and seeing those pics.