Rockstead: Shin, Kou or none?

Al-Sheikh

Al-Sheikh

Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
867
Hi,

since I've joined BF I've mainly posted in the Busse forum. But since they don't have a folder (yet) I gladly come here to ask for your highly appreciated advice.

I am not a folder specialist, but based on recommendations in this forum I can call myself a happy owner of a large Sebenza, Strider SMF, Lionsteel SR-1 and Hinderer XM-18 non-flipper. Now I am looking for a new high end folding knife. During my research Rockstead Knives caught my attention, especially the Kou and the Shin. Here two pics and specs for the ease of reference:

1. Rockstead Kou

RocksteadKou.jpg


Style: DLC coated BLADE
Full length: 181mm
Blade: 76mm
Material: YXR7
Thickness: 3.7mm
Weight: 100g
Hardness: around HRc65
Hard Coating: DLC coating
Scale: Aluminum(A6063) Hard-anodized treatment
Embellishments: Stingray


2. Rockstead Shin

RocksteadShin.jpg


Style: DLC coated BLADE
Full length: 210mm
Blade: 95mm
Material: YXR7
Thickness: 3.7mm
Weight: 145g
Hardness: about HRc65
Hard coating: DLC coating
Scale: Aluminum(A6063) Hard-anodized treatment
Embellishments: Stingray

Why I haven't pulled the trigger and related questions:

1. Both knives have liner locks. As far as I know liner locks are considered weaker than frame locks. I am afraid that I might spend lots of money on an unsafe and outdated locking mechanism. Are my concerns justifiable?

2. The scales are made of Aluminum. Even though it is "hard-anodized" I guess it is weaker than titanium. Do you think under normal use (no chopping, prying and batoning) this will be recognizable as a deficiency?

3. If my concerns in points 1 and 2 are invalid, which one of both knives to you think is preferable for "casual, non-business-suit"-edc purposes? This question refers more to the size and weight difference.

Disclaimer:
- Photos and specs taken from http://www.rockstead.jp
- I can only afford one of both. Man, they are expensive...
- I know they also offer models with framelock (e.g. Higo) and titanium handle (e.g. Shu), but those don't appeal to me

And now... bring it on! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
every Rockstead knife I have seen has been extremely overpriced.
In fact, they are ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I couldn't find a price when I was looking through the sight, how much do these go for?

To AL-s:
1. I don't think most guys here would consider the linerlock to be unsafe or outdated. It's still on thousands of new knives and will probably continue to be used forever.
2. There's no way you'll ever hurt that aluminum if you're just carrying it in a pocket and using it a couple times a day. It IS going to get scratched up tho, no matter how careful you are.
3. Ha, I know nothing about these knives, but from a guy who cares just as much about aesthetics as utility, I think the top one looks nicer proportion-wise.

Good luck :)

JW
 
Al-Sheikh said:
Why I haven't pulled the trigger and related questions:

1. Both knives have liner locks. As far as I know liner locks are considered weaker than frame locks. I am afraid that I might spend lots of money on an unsafe and outdated locking mechanism. Are my concerns justifiable?

2. The scales are made of Aluminum. Even though it is "hard-anodized" I guess it is weaker than titanium. Do you think under normal use (no chopping, prying and batoning) this will be recognizable as a deficiency?

3. If my concerns in points 1 and 2 are invalid, which one of both knives to you think is preferable for "casual, non-business-suit"-edc purposes? This question refers more to the size and weight difference.
Click to expand...

1. That is plain ridiculous. Michael Walker's design was solid as rock, the Framelock is a different implementation and neither of them are unsafe if done right. I would say the liner lock has bad reputation because a lot of clones of the liner lock are being used and they are terribly done

2. Aluminum is plenty strong. You know about Planes? They're mostly made of high quality aluminum. Hard Anodizing(HA) is the toughest kind; many flashlights have HAII or HAIII, those are the tougher kinds

3. That choice will be for you to decide. Do you need a $800 knife to EDC? If you have the money, would you rather spend $200 and then $600 on something else?
 
Actually the knives shown are aluminum framelocks. The lockbars have an adjustable, hardened steel contact face which contacts the blade so wear is not an issue. Some other models have inset titanium lockarms. I have never seen a Rockstead knife with a lockup issue. Their knives are precision engineered by folks who know their stuff.

Rockstead makes excellent products. They are expensive but you get what you pay for. They use high end 5 axis CNC machinery to mill the grips and parts and the blades are hand finished in hours of polishing. The main business of the company is not knives - hence the equipement - but the small division which makes the knives is super and the knives are a passion of the owner. Rockstead strives to fuse Japanese cutlery tradition with modern materials and technology while keeping a good balance between hand craftsmanship and modern machining. I've known Hiroshi Hanada who travels around the world selling Rockstead knives for many years and talked to him a lot about their knives.

I've never heard of anyone being disappointed in a Rockstead knife.
 
1) Liner locks work great. My only concern with them have been the titanium variety, as titanium is softer than typical stainless and will wear faster.
2) If the aluminum is Type III anodized, it won't scratch or scuff unless you repeatedly mar the surface with stainless steel(keys) or equivalent materials. I've also seen a video of someone running over an aluminum flashlight with no structural failure(the light still works if scuffed to all hell).
3) I'd go for the Shin, mostly because it looks longer(and I prefer a longer blade).

Though to be honest, you could get a custom knife made to your exact specifications with that kind of money.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
every Rockstead knife I have seen has been extremely overpriced.
In fact, they are ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I am sure that any soft drink you order in your favorite steakhouse has a substantially higher markup than any Rockstead knife. Therefore, your main concern is most likely not that they are overpriced, but the price itself. And here you are right - the price seems ridiculous (... says the Porsche owner to the Ferrari salesman :rolleyes:)
 
Thanks for you feedback so far! Please keep 'em coming! Anybody here who owns one or even both of these models and wants to share his/her impression?
 
Al-Sheikh said:
I am sure that any soft drink you order in your favorite steakhouse has a substantially higher markup than any Rockstead knife. Therefore, your main concern is most likely not that they are overpriced, but the price itself. And here you are right - the price seems ridiculous (... says the Porsche owner to the Ferrari salesman :rolleyes:)
Click to expand...

They are definitely overpriced & I do not order soft drinks. Apples to oranges in any case. That comparison/justification is as overblown as Rockstead's prices. I can see they are right up your alley.
If you are dead set on buying a knife, don't ask for opinions you don't want to hear.
CNC machined anodized aluminum is cheap material and not very durable. The blade steel is high end, but for their prices you could get a great custom, and with better handle materials.
 
Al-Sheikh said:
I am sure that any soft drink you order in your favorite steakhouse has a substantially higher markup than any Rockstead knife. Therefore, your main concern is most likely not that they are overpriced, but the price itself. And here you are right - the price seems ridiculous (... says the Porsche owner to the Ferrari salesman :rolleyes:)
Click to expand...
It's the old argument of Sebenza VS a custom mid-tech knife like a Galyean Pro Turbulence. The mid-tech will have tolerances nearly as tight(mine was about 1mm off-center in the handles), zero blade play, same titanium(with TiAlN coating), titanium clip, IKBS, and a steel offering better edge retention and ease of sharpening.

From a general standpoint, the mid-tech offers more bang for the buck. Material-wise, a Yuna Mini Hard Series would offer more(titanium, G10, or carbon fiber) for less.

Of course, if the ergonomics of the Rockstead knives calls out to you, and you can afford one without breaking the bank, go for it:thumbup:. If you've already considered all the other pickings in the ocean and came to Rockstead, then I suppose nothing else will float your boat.

My own personal experience after buying a Sebenza, XM-18, SR-1, Mini Yuna Hard 2, and Galyean Pro Turbulence is that there will always be one "better" than the one you just bought.
 
I traded into a Rockstead Beetle and I enjoy carrying the knife. I always wanted one so when the offer came I jumped on it. It's got the DLC coated YXR7 bladesteel which is what I wanted and it has a nice stingray insert. The lockup is rock solid and there is zero play in any direction. Do I think they are overpriced? Yes I do, but sometimes you just gotta splurge. The Beetle is a discontinued model now so I'm kind of glad that I was able to get one when I could. I'm thinking about picking up a different model next year as well.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
They are definitely overpriced & I do not order soft drinks. Apples to oranges in any case. That comparison/justification is as overblown as Rockstead's prices. I can see they are right up your alley.
If you are dead set on buying a knife, don't ask for opinions you don't want to hear.
CNC machined anodized aluminum is cheap material and not very durable. The blade steel is high end, but for their prices you could get a great custom, and with better handle materials.
Click to expand...

First of all... I come in peace. The comparison with soft drink prices in restaurants was supposed to outline the difference between overpriced (unreasonably high mark up on production costs) and expensive (reasonable mark up on high production costs). From what I know the mark up on Rockstead knives is reasonable compared to the high production costs, so they are plainly expensive. I actually avoided the "value for money"-question in my initial post on purpose, because I was afraid that this might cause discussions like the one we are ending now.

I also apologize if you were offended by my assuming you would order soft drinks. I personally do. Furthermore, I am not dead set on buying any of these knives, and that's why I carefully read and consider the comments from fellow forum members that refer to my questions. Those that plainly answered my questions actually made me want a Rockstead more.

What generally annoys me is the following (but this does not address you personally): When s.o. ask about a 200 USD knife, people feel the urge to point out how great CRK and Striders are - knowing that these knives are beyond budget for this guy. If s.o. asks about anything above the 500 USD mark, the same people suddenly are convinced that a 200 USD knife would do just as good.

Please let's try to give members the advice they ask for - and I still need yours in the questions outlined in my initial post. Also user opinions of s.o. who owns or handled any of these two knives are very much appreciated :thumbup:
 
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I say go for it! I too would go for the shin model. I have spoken to a person or two who own Rockstead knives and they have made it clear; NO ONE is producing a knife to higher standards, not CRK and not any custom maker either, maybe as good as, but not better than. I don't own one, simply because I can't afford to lose a $1000 knife, and I just couldn't own one and not use the hell out of it! Regards, Steve
 
Title is "Rockstead: Shin, Kou or none?" I think that might have invited reasons NOT to buy one:thumbup:.
 
They look ghastly to me. I'm sure they are built nicely but I wouldn't buy it based on their looks alone. I hope they look better in person because they look like cheap gas station knives.
 
If spending that much on a knife one has to be sure that's what they really want.

I am sure the quality is there though.
 
They don't look that attractive at all.

Like all over-priced knives, you buy it because you want it and willing to shell out the money. All quality/f&f talks are redundant justifications.
 
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