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Rockstead tolerances

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rexromic

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Hi there just got my email back from Mr.Hanada San,recently did asked him about the tolerances on the Rockstead knives and he replied that they are measured in microns.If I correctly understand that is .000039 of a inch.For comparison CRK are in .0001 of a inch(which is brilliant as well) but not quite as good as Rockstead.My two favourite knife makers just made my day even better,they are truly out of this world.Anyone else share the same thoughts.
 
You sure about the +/- 0.0001 inches for CRK? Most of the references I see for him are +/- 0.00001 inches.

Keep in mind that, according to your anecdote from Rockstead, he mentioned microns--meaning three microns would be greater than 0.0001 inches.
 
Upon more investigation, you are correct, CRK is one tenth of one thousandth of an inch (0.0001). Still, any more microns than two would be greater. I think it would be fair to say that they have comparable tolerances--which is pretty impressive.

Now...to see if Rockstead makes left handed knives...
 
You sure about the +/- 0.0001 inches for CRK? Most of the references I see for him are +/- 0.00001 inches.

Keep in mind that, according to your anecdote from Rockstead, he mentioned microns--meaning three microns would be greater than 0.0001 inches.

This was my first thought as well. I can measure a year in seconds for you, but it will still add up to a year. That said, it wouldn't matter to me if they both pushed their tolerances another decimal place or two--I'm not interested in either of them.

Besides, if the manufacturing tolerances of CRK went from 0.00001" to 0.000001", you literally would not be able to tell the difference anyway.
 
Yes .00001 inch equals .254 microns.Well they are both great knife companies and just shows how good they are made.Cheers.
 
You sure about the +/- 0.0001 inches for CRK? Most of the references I see for him are +/- 0.00001 inches.

Keep in mind that, according to your anecdote from Rockstead, he mentioned microns--meaning three microns would be greater than 0.0001 inches.

Correct you are .00001 it is for a CRK.
 
You sure about the +/- 0.0001 inches for CRK? Most of the references I see for him are +/- 0.00001 inches.

Keep in mind that, according to your anecdote from Rockstead, he mentioned microns--meaning three microns would be greater than 0.0001 inches.

In his shop tour video, Chris Reeve mentions that certain dimensions such as flatness and parallel, are held
to +\- .0002 ( tenths that is ).

Not sure where you got the idea that his tols are held to millionths because they are not.

Features with tolerances in microns are usually reserved for surface finish.
Not only is .00001 incredibly difficult to achieve, but inspecting it would be an impossible task because even temperature changes of one degree +/- would change the dimension.

If Rockstead is holding geometric tols to microns then I certainly understand the high cost for one of their knives.
 
^ if that were to happen,the tolerances would be 0.000 & the knife wouldnt open;plus all our heads would explode !
 
I agree. Rockstead are all about surface prep and finishing on their blades. They do make amazing blades but their handle desgins and fit do not match the quality of those blades. I often wonder if we are looking at two different producers. :p I have handled many, many Rockstead knives and have owned a couple of fixed blades and two folders. I'll not be buying anymore to be honest and they really need to sort out the package as a whole to command the prices they ask, IMO.

In his shop tour video, Chris Reeve mentions that certain dimensions such as flatness and parallel, are held
to +\- .0002 ( tenths that is ).

Not sure where you got the idea that his tols are held to millionths because they are not.

Features with tolerances in microns are usually reserved for surface finish.
Not only is .00001 incredibly difficult to achieve, but inspecting it would be an impossible task because even temperature changes of one degree +/- would change the dimension.

If Rockstead is holding geometric tols to microns then I certainly understand the high cost for one of their knives.
 
there tolerances are very good,
notice only 1 screw holding the blade with out any play, the other pins just slide on

DSC06281.JPG
 
Sounds like a great knife and everything but what bugs me is the fact that it's not a true integral. I was under the assumption that an integral folder = the whole handle is made out of one piece of metal.
 
Holding parts of a knife to one one hundred thousandths of an inch? I think some misinterpretation has happened somewhere. I'm sure it could be done but that Sebenza would have to be assembled in a climate controlled clean room and would probably cost 30k to produce! All of which would be a moot point as soon as it was touched by human hands.


Ok, I'm being a little silly but I do think people have the wrong idea about these tolerance numbers.
 
Holding parts of a knife to one one hundred thousandths of an inch? I think some misinterpretation has happened somewhere. I'm sure it could be done but that Sebenza would have to be assembled in a climate controlled clean room and would probably cost 30k to produce! All of which would be a moot point as soon as it was touched by human hands.


Ok, I'm being a little silly but I do think people have the wrong idea about these tolerance numbers.
i agree, the heat off your hand would be enough to make a 0.0001 mm manufacturing torerances very silly
 
i agree, the heat off your hand would be enough to make a 0.0001 mm manufacturing torerances very silly


Agreed, I was in the calibration field for a couple of years. Those kinds of tolerances are hard to obtain for a price any of us would consider and any slight bump or weather/environmental change would render the knife almost useless. Those kinds of tolerances are seen in laboratory settings where almost every variable is controlled, even to the point of radio frequencies being blocked out. Humidity and temperature has to be controlled to a very exact range,

That's if we're only talking about the mechanics being that tight. If they somehow have a lab set up and make the grinds to that level of accuracy, then I guess it could be done if the company was willing to constantly finely adjust, and I mean constantly, the settings. They'd also need to constantly recalibrate each machine to ensure tolerances were met, which most of the time it's not that simple. Also, given the fact that an absolute number was given instead of a range, that leads me to suspect some loose words were said.

For whatever it's worth, I worked in a type 3 calibration laboratory, with some specialists working in the same small building as me in type 2 labs. For those of you unfamiliar, there's only one type 1 lab in the country last time I was in the know, and that's NIST, the national institution of standards technology (the people who define what a inch means, or a second, or a gram, or any other unit of measure) and a handful of type 2 labs, which are only slightly less capable than a type 1. They could make something to those specs, but it'd come at a lot higher price than 500 or 1000 bucks. The amount of work that goes into creating a level surface that accurate is not easily done in any setting. If it's true, then awesome, but they'd need to show the calibration reports on machines that are known to NIST (or the Japanese equivalent vis a vis Rockstead) to be able to prove such statements.

If someone wants to check out what a set of good gauge blocks run, have at it. Those surfaces are that accurately graded. You can force the air from between two pieces of metal and they stick together like they're magnets. It has to do with the valence shells of the atoms contained within the outermost surface of the blocks temporarily combining. If the surfaces of these knives were that tightly manufactured, then it'd be possible to take two knives and have them stick together because all air had been removed from between them.

http://www.pcsllctn.com/products/gaugeblocks.aspx

I saw a cheap set on amazon for 200 bucks, it doesn't give a full breakdown of tolerances like the set from the provided link. Keep in mind, those are small pieces of metal with no variation in surfaces like a knife blade has.
 
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Agreed, I was in the calibration field for a couple of years. Those kinds of tolerances are hard to obtain for a price any of us would consider and any slight bump or weather/environmental change would render the knife almost useless. Those kinds of tolerances are seen in laboratory settings where almost every variable is controlled, even to the point of radio frequencies being blocked out. Humidity and temperature has to be controlled to a very exact range,

That's if we're only talking about the mechanics being that tight. If they somehow have a lab set up and make the grinds to that level of accuracy, then I guess it could be done if the company was willing to constantly finely adjust, and I mean constantly, the settings. They'd also need to constantly recalibrate each machine to ensure tolerances were met, which most of the time it's not that simple. Also, given the fact that an absolute number was given instead of a range, that leads me to suspect some loose words were said.

For whatever it's worth, I worked in a type 3 calibration laboratory, with some specialists working in the same small building as me in type 2 labs. For those of you unfamiliar, there's only one type 1 lab in the country last time I was in the know, and that's NIST, the national institution of standards technology (the people who define what a inch means, or a second, or a gram, or any other unit of measure) and a handful of type 2 labs, which are only slightly less capable than a type 1. They could make something to those specs, but it'd come at a lot higher price than 500 or 1000 bucks. The amount of work that goes into creating a level surface that accurate is not easily done in any setting. If it's true, then awesome, but they'd need to show the calibration reports on machines that are known to NIST (or the Japanese equivalent vis a vis Rockstead) to be able to prove such statements.

yup.... had the "pleasure" to use a Interferometer... goal was one ring showing , making glass lenses and optical instruments... i still hate that teacher ;-)

back on topic...
my rockstead is for me the best build knife i have seen and take apart, and part off this is the precision engineering,
for the one screw holding the pivot and blade, is for mounting only, as the pivot is precision grind to length, this will also mean the measured the blade and washers and calculated the sideplay on the blade, as there is side play other wise you would not be able to move the blade, but it is not noticeable by hand, even after 1-1/2 years off edc use.

when i get rich ;-) i hope to order a folder from Stan Wilson, and i will be amazed again
 
Yes, any real world tool needs to have at least some play in it or the smallest dust particles and grit will screw it up. That doesn't mean that Rockstead or CRK or whoever doesn't make things more precise than other companies, which could very well be possible. I just don't really believe the numbers they gave. It's like a sniper rifle vs a rugged assault rifle. The AK47 does very well in nasty environments because of the loose specs, the sniper rifle not so much. If I remember right, the M4 was being built too tight for normal military use and they had to purposely relax the tolerances to keep them from jamming up. I believe the same thing applies to knives to a lesser degree. When I get rich we'll get together and do some destructive tests on em all!
 
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No need for destruction, keep those quality knives for enjoyable use.Hold on to that destructive mentality for zombie apocalypse :D.
 
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