Rockwell Hardness Tester

Silicone would do.

If you put the rope under slight tension when cutting, the fibers will pull away from the blade when cut. That elimiates the effects of differing blade shapes if you just want to test the steel, rather than the knife overall.
Hm, I honestly hadn't thought of that. Wow. Thank you. I'll still likely try to stay similar in the the main ways (blade thickness, behind the edge thickness, and primary bevel angle, obviously secondary bevel angle as well), but this opens up a bit more possibilities for me. Thank you.

Do you think 5 runs is enough to eliminate (most) scatter? Part of me says it's too small a run, and that I need to up it further. For similar reasons as wanting more samples to definitively say a "range" on the Rockwell testing, just that more testing eliminates more scatter or potential variables.
 
Hm, I honestly hadn't thought of that. Wow. Thank you. I'll still likely try to stay similar in the the main ways (blade thickness, behind the edge thickness, and primary bevel angle, obviously secondary bevel angle as well), but this opens up a bit more possibilities for me. Thank you.

Do you think 5 runs is enough to eliminate (most) scatter? Part of me says it's too small a run, and that I need to up it further. For similar reasons as wanting more samples to definitively say a "range" on the Rockwell testing, just that more testing eliminates more scatter or potential variables.
Try it and see how much scatter you get in the results.
 
Actually haven't decided yet. This was just a conversation between me and another user who were curious if isolation of just the apex could potentially change the results for wear resistance and/or which steels performed the best at very low angles(think something like shaving). You have a brand in mind that'd roughly fit the BESS PT50A tester holder (0.009" thread, but it can hold up to roughly 0.025")?

Edit: It would probably need to be a lower weight one, seeing as the BESS PT50A maxes out at 1000 grams I believe, but I get the knives to around 50-60 BESS as the starting range.
No specific recommendation, but I would suggest steering clear of any coated lines. Beyond that, I've noticed minor differences in cutting braid based on the weave itself. The ones that tend to flatten out more when being cut seem slightly harder to cut for some reason. 0.009" is ~6-8# test in monofilament line, so ~20-30# in braid, so you shouldn't have any issues finding something in the size you're looking for.

I like PowerPro line myself, but it is coated/saturated Spectra fiber, so probably wouldn't be ideal for what you're looking to do. But there are a lot of other options out there. You actually might even look into braided kite line (ETA: high-performance lines like Dyneema, not Dacron), it might be the most unadulterated product.
 
Try it and see how much scatter you get in the results.
I very much appreciate all the advice on it, especially since I'll be going at it alone this time around. It'll take quite a time investment, but maybe people beyond me would be interested in the results as they come, since this is a bit different type of cut testing compared to the usual ones going around.

Thank you again 🙂
 
No specific recommendation, but I would suggest steering clear of any coated lines. Beyond that, I've noticed minor differences in cutting braid based on the weave itself. The ones that tend to flatten out more when being cut seem slightly harder to cut for some reason. 0.009" is ~6-8# test in monofilament line, so ~20-30# in braid, so you shouldn't have any issues finding something in the size you're looking for.

I like PowerPro line myself, but it is coated/saturated Spectra fiber, so probably wouldn't be ideal for what you're looking to do. But there are a lot of other options out there. You actually might even look into braided kite line (not Dacron), it might be the most unadulterated product.
Thank you for the recommendations, since I'm not as familiar with fishing lines (unfortunately haven't fished in many years, used to love it though growing up). It was basically the only idea I could come to when posed the question "What if just isolating the apex itself only changes the results, say for something like shaving?" Which started this interest, and trying to figure out a manner in doing it. That's when I released the BESS tester itself basically does this already (test just the apex) and that just using a more abrasive/durable (and still consistent) material in place of the standard media could potentially show results like this, if they do indeed differ.

I'll take a look into your recommendations, I was also thinking the 6-8lb range(in Dyneema as HDPE/Dyneema is already one of the materials on the regular cut testing) on the line was likely to be ideal. I'll look into braided kite line as well, wasn't even thinking in that direction.

Thank you 🙂
 
Thank you for the recommendations, since I'm not as familiar with fishing lines (unfortunately haven't fished in many years, used to love it though growing up). It was basically the only idea I could come to when posed the question "What if just isolating the apex itself only changes the results, say for something like shaving?" Which started this interest, and trying to figure out a manner in doing it. That's when I released the BESS tester itself basically does this already (test just the apex) and that just using a more abrasive/durable (and still consistent) material in place of the standard media could potentially show results like this, if they do indeed differ.

I'll take a look into your recommendations, I was also thinking the 6-8lb range on the line was likely to be ideal. I'll look into braided kite line as well, wasn't even thinking in that direction.

Thank you 🙂
If you're using braided line, you could go even smaller. They make 6-8# equivalent braid (even some 2-4# out there), but it's going to be only ~0.003" diameter. However, when you start getting that thin, it could be too small.
 
If you're using braided line, you could go even smaller. They make 6-8# equivalent braid (even some 2-4# out there), but it's going to be only ~0.003" diameter. However, when you start getting that thin, it could be too small.
Thank you for the recommendations. I'll probably stick with something comparable in thickness to the regular BESS media, potentially a bit thicker (it really depends on how the testing goes, if I'm not seeing significant results with one over a large number of cuts/runs, may have to go slightly bigger to see how it influences the results). It'll likely be braided line going by what you've told me so far, seeing as it's conveniently made with Dyneema as my regular tests would include. But I might just have to try several types and sizes. I've yet to attempt something quite like this.

Really grateful for the insight 🙂
 
Edit: It would probably need to be a lower weight one, seeing as the BESS PT50A maxes out at 1000 grams I believe, but I get the knives to around 50-60 BESS as the starting range.
I am interested in seeing your results.

I tested one of my EDC’s in CPM154 trying different edges to cut 3/4” Manila rope. Highly refined edges did not cut the rope worth a flip. Stopping at 400 grit and deburring produced an edge that cut well and lasted. The highly refined edges wanted to slide over the fibers more than cutting into them.
 
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I am interested in seeing your results.

I tested one of my EDC’s in CPM154 trying different edges to cut 3/4” Manila rope. Highly refined edges did not cut the rope worth a flip. Stopping at 400 grit and deburring produced an edge that cut well and lasted. The highly refined edges wanted to slide over the fibers more than cutting into them.
There's just so many variables to sharpening, I can't give a great answer. I'm not going to claim to know all (or half) of them but I spent (and am still spending) time researching old studies on sharpening and abrasives in general. For me, it's somewhat also steel/heat treatment dependent. I've noticed steels at higher hardness, and typically ones that have finer microstructures(even with higher carbide volume) tend to be the easiest for me to get to high levels of sharpness and still be able to basically "sink" through 1/2" and 3/4" manila rope. Before I thinned my main current user (15V Manix G10, 66Rc 0.010"~ behind the edge with a tradition bevel at 5° per side, regular cutting bevel at 26° inclusive, my main EDC "all purpose" angle) I had it set to 28° inclusive, factory BTE (0.023"~) with it at roughly a 0.5 micon finish.

Just as a test of the knife, as it was my first real 15V user since getting one to replace the custom stolen in 2019, I hung 1/2" manila over the edge of my workbench in the garage so no blunting from the workbench would happen, the weight of the blade was enough to just keep it going through the rope non-stop. I gave up at a certain point on it, as even though it was slowly wearing the blade, the way it wears in general is different from a more coarse finish. I don't focus on forming a burr though as I sharpen, I mainly focus on shaping the apex and if a tiny micro burr happens, I'll use basswood with quality diamond emulsions at a micron rating just under my finishing stone. I've found leather stropping or suede to round the apex too much at lower micron levels, unless incredibly careful. Basswood basically keeps it straight with the edge, assuming you hold the same angle, with less chance of accidentally getting slight convexing of the apex.

This is just going by what I've read through different people's processes in sharpening, stropping, and abrasive types in general. I'm not going to claim to be an expert, or anything close. What I've learned though is there's a lot of variables just in sharpening that can change the end results a lot. I've saved a lot of different old studies done on different grits, angles, and methods comparing them on how they all work together to create the end result.

Hopefully, as this testing will be very time consuming, it will be beneficial to some people. I'm probably going to do it both in push and draw cuts, and see if that also plays a role on which steels at what hardness levels can remain stable at lower angles(so probably 400-600 grit and a 0.5-0.25 micron finish), and roughly how low each steel will go and not be stable anymore.
 
I tested my cold steel AirLite for hardness and it was consistently between 60 and 61 on my Wilson hardness tester. I was pretty surprised!

There are lower grit diamond compounds out there, too! I made up a strop with 40 micron on one side and 1 micron on the other. The 40 micron is around 350-400ish grit range, but doesn't leave a scratchy/toothy edge like a 40 micron equivalent stone would (I have a Shapton Glass Stone 325 and a Sharpal 325 and some other 400 grit diamond stones). I had a guy use my strop at a show last weekend and he was actually able to remove a chip from a M390 blade in a couple minutes with it.

I sometimes make my own fabric laminates like Micarta and they have a fuzzy feeling like rough side leather at lower grits when sanding them. I used one for deburring and damned if it didn't do the best job deburring! It was a piece with different fabrics cut up in it, so it wasn't as consistent as I wanted, but if you take something more consistent material wise (ie single layers of denim stacked; I think Damagrip will be close), it will give you a hard strop to not round the apex, but some fuzzies to help remove a wire edge. Next step is to see if it will hold compound well or not! I tried it with commercially produced Micarta products and did not get the same results, so something like G Carta or Damagrip would have the best chance of replicating what I found. I tried Balsa with some different compounds and didn't care for it and the softness of the wood varied. Some was MUCH softer than other batches, almost a smuch give as leather! I may try wetting and heating up the leather to dry it out to harden it and see if that makes it "harder" feeling for less rounding. I usually back off on the stropping angle just a hair so I am just hitting the apex with the give in the leather to try to minimize rounding the apex.
 
I tested my cold steel AirLite for hardness and it was consistently between 60 and 61 on my Wilson hardness tester. I was pretty surprised!

There are lower grit diamond compounds out there, too! I made up a strop with 40 micron on one side and 1 micron on the other. The 40 micron is around 350-400ish grit range, but doesn't leave a scratchy/toothy edge like a 40 micron equivalent stone would (I have a Shapton Glass Stone 325 and a Sharpal 325 and some other 400 grit diamond stones). I had a guy use my strop at a show last weekend and he was actually able to remove a chip from a M390 blade in a couple minutes with it.

I sometimes make my own fabric laminates like Micarta and they have a fuzzy feeling like rough side leather at lower grits when sanding them. I used one for deburring and damned if it didn't do the best job deburring! It was a piece with different fabrics cut up in it, so it wasn't as consistent as I wanted, but if you take something more consistent material wise (ie single layers of denim stacked; I think Damagrip will be close), it will give you a hard strop to not round the apex, but some fuzzies to help remove a wire edge. Next step is to see if it will hold compound well or not! I tried it with commercially produced Micarta products and did not get the same results, so something like G Carta or Damagrip would have the best chance of replicating what I found. I tried Balsa with some different compounds and didn't care for it and the softness of the wood varied. Some was MUCH softer than other batches, almost a smuch give as leather! I may try wetting and heating up the leather to dry it out to harden it and see if that makes it "harder" feeling for less rounding. I usually back off on the stropping angle just a hair so I am just hitting the apex with the give in the leather to try to minimize rounding the apex.
I agree completely 🙂. There are some lower grit emulsions I've been wanting to try out too, currently my lowest grit is a 30 micron, followed by a 25 grit.

I hadn't thought of stacking denim or something like Damagrip. I'll have to give that a go as well 😃

I also completely agree on basla, it is very, very soft. It reminds me almost like poplar, without all the knots.

However, basswood is a good bit more firm, it doesn't leave the "indentations" in the wood is you apply a bit of pressure as you do on balsa. I've not really understood why people use balsa, I'm guessing because it's cheaper/more readily available, but to each their own. Basswood will also leave a bit of "fuzzies" after using it enough as well, maybe not to the extent of your homemade denim strop, but I've found it so far to be a great substrate. I will have to give Damagrip and stacked denim a try now though 🙂

Great information, as always 😃
 
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