Rough Rider & Related Slipjoints

FordRanger said:
I have a question for all you Rough Rider aficionados, what is the faint, hazy look along the edges of RR blades? I've seen it on every single RR I've ever seen in person, and in a few pictures including my own. It almost looks like a differential tempering line, but that can't be what it is.



Here's the line I'm referring to, no matter how much I wipe the blades they all still have this line. it only shows up in certain light though, as looking at it from other angles makes it go away. I've never seen anything like it before to my recollection, but all of my Rough Riders have it. It doesn't really bother me but I've always wondered what it was.
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I believe that hazy line is from their factory honing. Rough Rider Blades seem to usually be highly polished but their grinds are usually rather coarse. I suspect the haze is from buffing at a slightly lower grit than the rest of the blade polish. Make sense?
 
Lemmy Caution said:
I believe that hazy line is from their factory honing. Rough Rider Blades seem to usually be highly polished but their grinds are usually rather coarse. I suspect the haze is from buffing at a slightly lower grit than the rest of the blade polish. Make sense?
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That does make sense, as it does resemble a mirror finish that has had part of it "dulled." It certainly explains why it follows the edge line but does not change the actual geometry of the grind. Thanks!
 
I call it the RR Hamon line :D I have been noticing a different grind on some of the RR patterns,normally quite a course edge but in the newer three spring lockback canoe whittler it is a much finer grind BUT just as sharp as the toothy grind.

Best regards

Robin
 
It seems that most of the forum members like the Rough Rider knife lineup. While I am enjoying the tapered, stiletto-type blade of my new Melon Tester (Toad Stabber) knife, I find myself wondering about the tempering of their 440A steel blades. Are they stout enough to peform daily cutting chores without having to resharpen it every time you turn around?

Captain O
 
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Captain O said:
It seems that most of the forum members like the Rough Rider knife lineup. While I am enjoying the tapered, stiletto-type blade of my new Melon Tester (Toad Stabber) knife, I find myself wondering about the tempering of thier 440A steel blades. Are they stout enough to peform stout cutting chores without having to resharpen it every time you turn around?

Captain O
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In my experience the blades are soft and easily become dented. But the soft steel is also easy to sharpen and can take a nice edge. They're decent knives at a low cost but I think the quality is often exaggerated.
 
Does anyone have the Rough rider improved muskrat kb282? Does anyone know if there is a liner between the sheepfoot and clip blade?

I'm also interested in the mini trapper pattern and was wondering if there was a liner between the two blades?
 
Just got this small stockman to keep my other RR company, i still can not believe what nice little knives they are for the price and with a bit of elbow grease the etching on the blade comes right off.

K2OyNtRl.jpg
 
oldmanrunning

If you don't mind me asking how big is that small RR stockman? I've been looking at some small stockman knifes to expand my "coin pocket knife" collection and I think the RR model would do nicely but it would be nice to hear from someone who's actually handled one.
 
RR are heat treated to 58 rockwell which I believe is around max for 440a. I have never found that they dented or rolled with hard use and they can be stropped on your jeans and they come back very sharp indeed. I would put them up against Case any day in an out of the box cutting test and do it again after reprofiling both the case and RR. I've done it and the Case SS Lost badly.
Here are a few pics of the newish canoe three spring lockback. The grind is quite different from the normal wide toothy edge, still cuts like a razor.
Best regards

Robin



 
Pipeman said:
RR are heat treated to 58 rockwell which I believe is around max for 440a. I have never found that they dented or rolled with hard use and they can be stropped on your jeans and they come back very sharp indeed.
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Is that value from the manufacturer or an independent test?

Pipeman said:
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It looks like there are uneven springs and a gap between the handle material and liner on the top right.

Here's a comparison of one Rough Rider and a comparable pattern from Case. I have two examples of the Rough Rider 725 and both have the same faults. The spey blades on every Rough Rider sowbelly that I've seen also hit the liner hard.

supratentorial said:
Dan4, can you make an update with a photo of the well?

Here are some photos of Case & Rough Rider knives that show the difference between a manufacturing defect and normal wear. The Rough Rider 725's clip blade and sheepfoot blade are hitting hard and the spey is hitting the liner hard. In contrast, there is no contact between the blades and liners on the Case 3347. Any rub marks on the Case knife would be caused by pushing on the blades instead of pulling straight up.







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Jake, re uneven springs on the RR: do you mean that center locking spring looks to be a fraction higher than the spring on either side ?
I have a few RR Stock knives and none have blade rub leaving marks, but i do not have a 725. I wonder if all, or most, of the 725's show this degree of rub. Would be interesting to see more 725's posted.
kj
 
supratentorial said:
Is that value from the manufacturer or an independent test?



It looks like there are uneven springs and a gap between the handle material and liner on the top right.

Here's a comparison of one Rough Rider and a comparable pattern from Case. I have two examples of the Rough Rider 725 and both have the same faults. The spey blades on every Rough Rider sowbelly that I've seen also hit the liner hard.
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The springs are even and flush, that gap is just a darker line in the bone. I have a few GECs that hit the back spring :D I'm not really comparing RRs fit and finish to Case however for the money they are always close IMO and I have handled well over 1000 RRs. My point was really that they come sharper than Case knives and from my comparisons they get sharper. To be totally honest, IF I had a new Case, A new GEC and new RR and NEEDED a sharp knife in an emergency situation, I would always pick the RR. Great entry level knife, great for comparing patterns which of course leads to GEC addiction :D
Oh, BTW, the rockwell of 58 came both from RR (a smokey mountain guy) and by a number of outside tests. I think there may be comments in this thread from early on,it was the big question at the time. According to Bernard Levine, 440a will rockwell to within one point of 440c with proper heat treat.

Have a great day

Best regards

Robin
 
Here's some comparison pics of a $10 RR scout with some older USA made scouts.

Case Tested era


Case XX era

Kabar

Camillus
 
Stareagle said:
oldmanrunning

If you don't mind me asking how big is that small RR stockman? I've been looking at some small stockman knifes to expand my "coin pocket knife" collection and I think the RR model would do nicely but it would be nice to hear from someone who's actually handled one.
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Hi Stareagle, i am waiting for a Case small stockman from the States , so i bought this from H-H to be going on with, as you will see from the photo it is closer in size to the Case medium stockman. It is a bit larger than i was expecting and as a coin pocket knife OK but i prefer a Peanut as i find this RR Stockman has a way of getting wedged in.
The Case small stockman hopefully should arrive this week, i will post comparison photos then.

WxWtzrfl.jpg
 
kootenay joe said:
Jake, re uneven springs on the RR: do you mean that center locking spring looks to be a fraction higher than the spring on either side ?
I have a few RR Stock knives and none have blade rub leaving marks, but i do not have a 725. I wonder if all, or most, of the 725's show this degree of rub. Would be interesting to see more 725's posted.
kj
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Pipeman said:
The springs are even and flush, that gap is just a darker line in the bone. I have a few GECs that hit the back spring :D I'm not really comparing RRs fit and finish to Case however for the money they are always close IMO and I have handled well over 1000 RRs. My point was really that they come sharper than Case knives and from my comparisons they get sharper. To be totally honest, IF I had a new Case, A new GEC and new RR and NEEDED a sharp knife in an emergency situation, I would always pick the RR. Great entry level knife, great for comparing patterns which of course leads to GEC addiction :D
Oh, BTW, the rockwell of 58 came both from RR (a smokey mountain guy) and by a number of outside tests. I think there may be comments in this thread from early on,it was the big question at the time. According to Bernard Levine, 440a will rockwell to within one point of 440c with proper heat treat.

Have a great day

Best regards

Robin
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Thanks Robin. I'm going to reply to both of you at the same time since there's some overlap... and I'm a bit lazy. ;) I was looking at the shadows between the springs. I don't have the knife in hand so it was more of a question than a statement. But in my experience, the Rough Rider knives have gaps and uneven springs, gaps between the handle material and the liners, etc. The blade rub seems to be a common problem on the 725 and the sowbellies. On the 725, I can actually see the sheepfoot blade move if I let the clip blade fall shut. Stock knives and whittlers are always a bit tricky, especially when the blades are crinked. I give Rough Rider points for the lockback, especially on an $8-10 knife. I'm not going to be super critical at that price point. But I think that's why the "quality" gets exaggerated. The faults are there. I could go through this thread and find a lot of faults but it would not be polite... it wouldn't be particularly fun either. Since Robin posted a photo as an example for this discussion, I made a few comments that I normally would not make about someone's new baby. It's a lot more fun to enjoy the knives than to focus on the faults. But I think it's important to keep it all in perspective. I think they're fun knives in lots of interesting patterns but they are inexpensive knives in more ways than just the price. I can change the profile on these knives with a few passes on ceramic stones. To me, that suggests it's pretty soft.
 
What I think the RR's do is give you a chance to buy some discontinued or otherwise expensive patterns to use and beat the crap out of without the cost. I have their half hawk and their scout for that reason.
xU7uhVZ.jpg

Red bone Case xx era - RR scout
 
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wazu013 said:
What I think the RR's do is give you a chance to buy some discontinued or otherwise expensive patterns to use and beat the crap out of without the cost. I have their half hawk and their scout for that reason...
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I agree. They also have quite a few old patterns that are uncommon and some that are not produced by any other company... lockback whittlers and trappers and sowbellies, multi-blades with a LOT of blades, a stockman with a spey blade primary, a stockman with a cap lifter and screwdriver, etc.
 
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