RThoughts on freehanding.

Ben Dover

Ben Dover

Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
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Many folks here are very good at freehand sharpening, and seem to look down their noses at those who use guided systems.

i can speak to my personal experience, and the experiences of a few friends.

My hand-eye co-ordination and basic nervous system prevents me from freehanding. I tried for years, literally years, to learn and could not. Believe me, I would dearly love to be able to freehand.

But I can't. I just don't have the "feel." for it. Same for many of my friends. I can put a half ***** utility edge on after 2 or 3 hours with a bench stone, but I've never been able to get a sharp edge.

So for those of you that are good at it, before you look down your nose, please remember that most of us would love to have your skill, but physical limitations will just not allow it.
 
Did you have a good teacher?

I taught myself when I was a kid, and I’ve also taught MANY others over the past 40 years.

There are some people who seem to have no knack for things that require coordination like you mention—true klutzes in the case of some of these students.

However, I’ve been able to teach almost all of them to get serviceable edges and maintain them to a very high level of sharpness, test the edges, troubleshoot, etc.

For some it took getting the right equipment, my analyzing what they could change, and long term persistence.

It sounds like you really have tried. Has anyone worked with you 1-on-1? Over a period of years? Tried your equipment?
 
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No reason for anyone to look down on others regardless of the how they sharpen a knife ... I think it's great if anyone has the desire to sharpen their knives/tools ... whatever their method or skill level.

Do what works for you and take pride in the fact you choose to do it!
 
1yr i freehanded thinking that i did it right, i only cared about the burr, ignored the microburr. knives were sharp, i was happy.

only this year i learned to detect and remove every bit of microburr, and it's still a challenge. anyway that was a game changer .. and nothing a beginner or slow learner could learn within a year imho. some skill, art, talent maybe needed, but to me it was mostly patience, practice and practical experience. fun\enjoyment is the motivating force.

on a scale from grade0 (null) to grade5 (expert) i advanced this year from grade3 to grade4, and all this within a budget, i.e. no diamond sprays\emulsions.

i like my edgepro-like guided systems too , it's where my mindset on sharpening (knowledge and principles) was born and formed gradually, but one day i felt inspired (by YouTube clips) to just play with an old knife on a edgepro-like stone and the movement came all natural. coordination not a big problem. raising a burr no problem. a child can raise a burr!

somehow operating the guided systems for over 2yrs transitioned me naturally\automatically into voluntary playful freehanding experiments (grade1). and 1.5yrs later i regard myself as a grade4. confident to tackle any expensive premium knife\blade steel! and also learned that a full sharpening of a Mora scandi grind to original mirror finish is nothing that I'll ever do again. :thumbsdown: :p

i look up to efficient sharpeners like @NORTHWEST_KNIFE_GUY or @michael Christy (they are both grade5, skilled, and use similar unorthodox techniques which i adopted). if i look up, it must mean that i also look down.
shame on me :oops: but i do look down on Burrfection's sharpening. i like his videos and personality etc but since he doesn't check for microburr he's still a grade3 sharpener to me so shame on him also haha:poop: ;)
 
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Ben Dover said:
look down their noses at those who use guided systems.
Click to expand...
Here's what I have to say about that; I can free hand knives and I get consistently superior edges off the Edge Pro.
I can free hand other cutting tools such as woodworking hand plane blades; I get consistently better edges off the jig I use for those blades . . . proved it to my self from years of trying both.

I suppose there are people who look down their nose at people who don't ""Believe"" the earth is flat to.
Beliefs and opinions are nice to carry around for company.
When it comes to science and hardware facts are what count. I go with the facts.
 
Not to distract from your point, which I agree with, but if you disregard aesthetics I bet you can get a good working edge freehand by shaping/thinning at a low angle, then micro beveling at a higher angle. This doesn't require being able to hold a consistent angle because wobble in the shaping phase only adds convexity (and usually scratches the face of the blade), and the micro bevel only has to be at a higher angle than any part of the convex edge to make sure you reach the very apex.
 
I commend anyone who genuinely wants to have sharp knives.

I used a KME sharpening system for a number of years and it was a major help in showing me all the mistakes I was making for so many years before. If I didn't have a personal passion for free hand sharpening, I wouldn't think twice about using my KME forever. It produces great edges and I'm confident in saying that is more than the vast majority of knife owners can say. Most people, including many "enthusiasts" have dull knives. Period. Find a good method to get and keep your blades sharp and rock on.

If you have physical limitations, then to Hell with what anyone says. Find something that works for you.

Free hand sharpening provides nearly infinite flexibility and is why so many sharpeners push it. They know many people have just never been shown good techniques, understand the fundamentals, etc. so they/we try to nudge toward freehand sharpening in an effort to try it with solid knowledge. In a rather generic request, I I'll always steer folks to free hand sharpening but will also never disparage a system if that is what they want/need.

Mirror edges and such aren't impressive. Sharp knives that work for the user are. However you get there, as long as it works, more power to you.

Just knives. ;)

EDIT: Ugh, did an edit to fix a typo and lost the start of the post, sorry if it reads odd now.
 
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Personally everyone who uses a knife or other edged tool on a regular should be capable of crafting an OK edge, something that will cut vegees, rope, chop some wood if it is an outdoor tool. This doesn't have to be a cosmetically pretty or highly refined edge. Raise a burr, flip it, remove 80% of the burr and you're in business. This is a skill everyone had a few generations back. That not everyone could maintain a razor blade should be clear from how common barber shops used to be...

Aside from that I have no bias. I freehand most often, also have a homemade guided widget that work great. I use both.
 
It doesn't matter whether it's done freehand or with a system. I started with a Ken onion. Didn't like it. Went to a belt sander then paper wheel then to freehand almost exclusively. So you are still a man if you use a system. Lol. It's handy to freehand as you can touch up on the fly. It isn't that difficult but there is a learning curve. And it does take some time. Anybody imo can learn to freehand. But you don't have to. I'm glad I do. But it's your call.
 
Guided systems make it easier to get a decent edge that will cut. Something one can quickly more forward with.
Freehand sharpening is in a different learning curve. Something my Grandfather & Father could do. But is lost in this generation. Here it's
usefulness is being rediscovered. A good thing. Carry on. DM
 
I found I didn't really understand sharpening, raising a burr, and getting to the apex until I figured it out on a guided system. But then a light bulb went on, and now I am learning to freehand (all by feel) on stones and stropping to finish. Had I not used a guided system I personally wouldn't have learned HOW a knife becomes sharp. Now that I know what it's supposed to look like, my freehand sharpening has become much more reliable and enjoyable.
 
The big takeaway for me, in learning to sharpen using a guided jig, was that my hands & fingertips at some point began to recognize the 'feel' for flush contact on the bevels. If one really pays attention to it, it's something the jigs are very good for; they won't allow anything but flush contact, once new bevels are set in using them. There's also the feel for when the edge is very, very close to apexing, and then when it happens, the apex 'bites' the hone. Ding! Lightbulb Moment! (if one is paying attention). In those two things, one learns what flush contact feels like against the bevels (smooth or slick) and then what it feels like when the apex is in contact (changes from smooth/slick to biting/grinding/catching or 'cutting' the stone). The fact my hands were learning this wasn't really a conscious thing, but something to which my hands became habitually accustomed, in using the guide.

So, after doing that for a while and calibrating my 'feel' in such a controlled manner, my fingertips eventually became aware of the difference in feedback if/when the bevels weren't flush when I started fiddling with freehand. It's odd to think about it, but the fingertips do really KNOW when something's different, i.e. wrong, after feeling such consistent & flush contact for so long while using a jig. And when the fingers feel something's out of kilter, then there's an almost equally unconscious 'adjustment' that happens in the held position of the blade, to compensate. Once I realized what was going on and began to trust my fingers to tell me what's happening, everything in freehand just began to click.

So, I see the value in jigs. I started using them to learn how to sharpen, and eventually did learn how. But the 'learning' didn't happen in a way I would've assumed in starting out. It came about as a very welcome surprise. This rang especially true again, when I eventually started training my non-dominant hand (left) to 'feel' the same feedback and adjust to it, just as I had done with my dominant hand (right). The hands learn, even if the conscious brain doesn't realize it or understand how it happens.
 
I don't see many people looking down on others on the forums here, regardless of what system you have, bench, guided or power.

Not sure how good of an edge you need, but the sharpmaker gets a loy of praise, but I'm not sure how much that will help with you lack of coordination, for whatever reason. Sometging with a clamp might be easy, like a KME, or look at a powered sharpener like the worksharp.
 
Ben Dover said:
Many folks here are very good at freehand sharpening, and seem to look down their noses at those who use guided systems.
Click to expand...

I use a guided system for the most part, and my investment in stones is substantial. I can crank out some pretty nice work. I'm reluctant to throw down for stones and equipment on a "freehand experiment" that might not provide any benefit over what I already have.

Most of my work is on my personal pocket knives and kitchen knives. On the pocket knives, I REALLY like the look provided by a guided system. The lines are near perfect. I like that. On my kitchen knives, I do the same thing. But I really like the look of a polished kitchen knife with a gradual approach to the apex, as can be created by an expert freehander.

So here's the question
Aside from the visual aesthetic difference, is it possible to create a sharper edge using freehand or guided?
 
RustyIron said:
So here's the question
Aside from the visual aesthetic difference, is it possible to create a sharper edge using freehand or guided?
Click to expand...

I suspect on very high carbide steels a guide might make a slight difference for the better. But edge retention is already good for these steels, and many have longer term wear characteristics that are somewhat independent of initial edge quality.

Overall I haven't noticed any difference.
 
RustyIron said:
Aside from the visual aesthetic difference, is it possible to create a sharper edge using freehand or guided?
Click to expand...

My sharpest edges by the "hanging hair test" have all come from guided sharpening. (Including the spine of a cut-throat razor acting as a guide.) I am not an accomplished freehand sharpener however.

As far as edge longevity I found this post interesting, but I have no results of my own to support it:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/stropping-vs-ultra-fine-stones.1646172/page-2#post-18836968
 
Use a guided system. I've been doing it for the last 2 years (lansky), have been using a sharpmaker for touch ups and some reprofiling, and my edges are good. Very good. I didn't have any luck with the lansky at first, until I finally felt a burr. Then it was all downhill.

But setting up the lansky is tedious, and the sharpmaker takes a while to reprofile even with the diamond rods. And I feel I'm finally ready to freehand. I have a smith's tri hone so I started doing a few of our dull kitchen knives. Got them hair shaving sharp (finished with the ultrafine sharpmaker stone after the Arkansas).

I knew I would need more for my pocket knives and their steels (S30v, s35vn, 20cv, m390) so I got a Norton combo crystolon and a dmt fine bench stone. Decided to do some practice with a Kershaw natrix (8cr13mov). That coarse norton brings up a burr in no time. The fine side puts a decent, usable edge on, and the dmt refined it even further but it still wasn't quite there. Did a few swipes on my sharpmaker brown rods and hairs leap off my arm. Just needed a little more refinement. And the bevels look pretty good! I really can feel them now. Not great, but I'll get better with time. So using my guided systems helped me with freehanding.

I'm still not great, but I can do it, and with the coarse norton it should be a cakewalk to fix and reprofile bevels.

So use a guided system, get the basics down, and transition. You also have to find techniques that work for you, because I've watched many videos and everyone seems to have a different way of reaching the same goal! So just do what feels right.
 
I recommend that everyone should know how to free hand just because you can touch up a dulled knife just about anywhere on a rock or sidewalk. That being said if you do not keep in practice you will forget the muscle memory and loose skill.

There is nothing wrong with using a system because a dull knife is a dangerous knife. Any way you can sharpen your knives and enjoy them is the way to go.
 
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