Rusty 'ol KnotKlipper update

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nickzdon

Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
398
At the end of our last chapter, I'd discovered that a rusty old head that I picked off the Bay (described as a 'decorative item') was in fact a Mann KnotKlipper. I've since gotten it hung and started sharpening it back up. the hanging went pretty smoothly. 36" HHS DB haft, with a 1/4" excess protruding from the top of the head, as is the fashionable style these days.

However, once I got to work on the bit with a flat bastard file things got more interesting. I was using a Made in Mexico Nicholson bastard that, just last week, blew through the bit of a contemporary Collins (not very surprising, I know). But after an hour or so of roughing in the profile on the Klipper, and doing my best to remove the pits in the bit, that Nicholson was/is scrap metal. D-u-l-l, dull. I could tell from the get-go that the Klipper steel was tough. Damn tough. But to dull a Nicholson that fast!? Now, I'm not sure if it was the fact that the file was imported, or the hardness of the steel of bit, or a combination of the two that killed that file, but it's dead as a doornail. A knife blank. I plan on picking up a new Nicholson, a US made one, this week to see how it fairs against the Klipper. Stay tuned.

Before:
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Currently:
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That's interesting and very good to know about your experience with the file, Nick.

Is that blood??? :D
 
I use a hand file on every axe and I've done 3 or 4 Mann axes and I've noticed every one was hard to file. I wonder if they are tempered a bit more than the others.
Before I start with a new file I make a few passes with it on a piece of brass or copper first. I've been told this makes them last longer although I don't have any definite proof of it. I figure it can't hurt, anyway.
 
nickzdon said:
with a 1/4" excess protruding from the top of the head, as is the fashionable style these days.
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Hi Nickzdon...That sentence made me smile. I think that style makes for a good look also.

What a great job with that axe. I really appreciate the type of work where the years of built-up patina is just highlighted and left there for all to see. Good work mate (Blood n All)

regards...Frank.
 
Wow, that axe is really coming along. I like what you've done with it.

Sometimes oxidation on a tool can act like an abrasive against your files. This is a case where a knotted wire wheel or cup would be appropriate. Knotted wire wheels are made from carbon steel. They'll scratch the surface but that doesn't matter if you're planning to file it afterwards anyway.

Another thing that is important with file work is to stop if for some reason the file isn't cutting. A file skipping along the surface of the work will dull very quickly. Sometimes just a change in the speed or pressure applied to the file can start it cutting again.

And if you don't cut yourself once in a while you're not doing it right.
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Looking much better.

I'd be tempted to grab a sanding block and get busy with the wet & dry to be honest*, rather than risk dulling a new file.

Look forward to seeing more....and possibly what you make of the dead file too??

*actually I'd take it to the belt sander but you may not have or want to use one.
 
I'm curious for your update. My plumb double has the hardest steel of any axe I've seen and it dulled up two files. I was thinking about getting the U.S. nicholson file so I'm anxious to hear how it works out. Thanks for the update.
 
i came by a knot klipper a few years ago, had the same thing, just hard as hell. I did all my profiling with power sanders after the file just skidded off with only leaving some scratches. nice bit though, good work on yours.
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mines currently waiting for another handle.
 
Here's an update on the file situation. I stopped by the local hardware store and asked about a new Nicholson. I said I wanted a Mexican made and an American made to compare. The guy told me, "I can already tell you that the American one will outlast the Mexican one. We've gotten a lot of complaints about the Mexican ones." So there you have it.

I still bought both and plan on alternating between the two when I get back to the Klipper, just to see for myself.

Question for the forum: does anyone know if double bits were hardened to a higher degree than single bit? It seems like some of the others here have some pretty damn tough double bits. It even looks like my Klipper may have been quenched twice! Thanks.
 
There was a recent discussion on Nicholson files in a hand tool woodworking fourm. FWIW it was said that Nicholson has switched file manufacturing out of the US and the non US files were of lesser quality. However, some stores still have some US files still in stock.

I went through the files in four stores and found a few US. The bottom left of the US made file packages has "USA" in large print, with the letters the colors of the american flag. The file will also be stamped U S A.
 
nickzdon said:
Here's an update on the file situation. I stopped by the local hardware store and asked about a new Nicholson. I said I wanted a Mexican made and an American made to compare. The guy told me, "I can already tell you that the American one will outlast the Mexican one. We've gotten a lot of complaints about the Mexican ones." So there you have it.

I still bought both and plan on alternating between the two when I get back to the Klipper, just to see for myself.
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Do yourself a big favor and get yourself a Pferd file or two. ;)
 
Just a further thought on files; what a bout switching to a Diamond file or one of the DMT type sharpeners to do the donkey?
 
scruffuk said:
Just a further thought on files; what a bout switching to a Diamond file or one of the DMT type sharpeners to do the donkey?
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They don't get fast enough in my experience. Good for finishing work though.

I remember working on a bellknap bluegrass (Kelly?) that was insanely hard. I ended up using a belt sander to take it down a bit and then finished with a file. Even after you get the file "kerfs" cut it was still really slow going.
 
G-pig said:
They don't get fast enough in my experience. Good for finishing work though.

I remember working on a bellknap bluegrass (Kelly?) that was insanely hard. I ended up using a belt sander to take it down a bit and then finished with a file. Even after you get the file "kerfs" cut it was still really slow going.
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Agreed. I consider diamonds best suited to medium work. In order from most agressive to least: files, then synthetic or natural stones, then diamonds, then ceramic, then a strop.

Naturally there's some overlap between stages and there are also exceptions to the rule, but I find that the above is a pretty good rule of thumb.
 
scruffuk said:
Just a further thought on files; what a bout switching to a Diamond file or one of the DMT type sharpeners to do the donkey?
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I use the DMT Diafolds after the bastard. They others are right, they don't remove material quite quick enough to eat through the rust and pitting.

I'll look into Pferd files. Thanks for the tip. Anyone else have experience with them?
 
I haven't used Pferds but I'm very impressed with Simonds Multi-Kut files. They cut fast like a bastard and leave a finish almost as nice as a fine mill.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Sounds sort of like Pferd's PLUS cut.

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They look similar but a little different. The Multi-Kuts have a diamond patterned double cut to them.

multikutflat.jpg


I've seen the same pattern and even the same 'Multi-Kut' name on a file made by Heller. Not sure what the relationship is but I'd imagine one company bought out the other. Both are awesome files.
 
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