RyanW / Turner SanMai Chopper WIP

[RyanW]

I started a “Camp Chopper” thread a while ago HERE. RogerP pointed out it was more of a “Tweener”. With input from some great people I worked out a larger version. Mike Turner Cut me a sweet deal on one of his HUGE pieces of SanMai. We discussed doing a quick WIP, so here it is.

As some of you may know I am headed to the OKCA knife show this month. I plan to have this finished up for that show, time is short I leave town on April 12th. After the show Mike is putting on a forging clinic for a few of us. I plan on moving in that direction in my knife making endeavors.

The Design:

SPECS:
Steel: Mike Turner SanMai (Wrought Iron with Cru Forge V Core)
OAL: 15.5”
Blade: 9.5”
Handle: Undecided Stabilized Wood
Misc: Brute De Forge Finish on Flats, Tapered Tang

I cut out the pattern and sent it Mike so he could get the billet forged to the rough shape.

The Billet:
Wrought Iron Anchor cut up and rebar welded to it for drawing.

1 1/2" round wrought Iron sitting on my 300 pound Vulcan anvil waiting for the forge to warm up, I threw this one in as Ryan's chopper is drawn on the anvil for reference while forging out the san mai billet.

Heat number 2 on the 2 Wrought Iron Bars, the first heat we straightened the bars out and managed to square them up a bit.

I have drawn the wrought iron down to the thickness need for this san mai. Not all of this wrought Iron will go into Ryan's billet, I wanted to make sure I had enough plus I always draw out extra wrought iron for future projects.

Here we are ripping down some Cru Forge V stock for the core.

Here we have our materials gathered.

Here we have ground clean all the materials.

Have the pieces clamped up in an orientation that we will have 2 pieces of Cru Forge V in the blade end and 1 piece in the handle end.

Sorry missed a few shots as it is hard to take pictures of the action shots working alone, so here we have the bar forged down to what Ryan has asked for and I have pre bent the bar to fit his chopper. Now get to work Ryan.

Mike was very quick and I had the billet in my hands a few days later.

I marked the pattern on the billet with a White out pen for higher contrast for my old eyes.

Profiling:
If I was doing this chopper by my usual method of stock removal I would need a huge piece of steel and most would have ended up on the floor. Mike was kind enough to shape the billet to my design, one of the big advantages of forging, not to mention the beautiful piece of SanMai.

... Stay Tuned

 

[Czechmate]

Very cool WIP so far! :thumbup:

 

[Lorien]

cruforgeV core?! I'm super pumped Ryan, can't wait to see this come together!

 

[RogerP]

Cool concept. Subscribed.

Roger

 

[RyanW]

Thanks for all the comments and Interest. I got a bit of shop time and thought I would post an update...


Mike told me the billet still needed to be annealed, I ran it through an anneal cycle bring up to 1600 F. then a slow cool to room temp in the oven.

I have been told a few times that I do this step out of order… I prefer to drill holes while I still have a square billet/stock. I hold the material in a Shop Fox Vise on the drill press so it makes the “helicopter of death” a rare occurrence. The holes with the cross marks will be pin holes Drilled with “F” (1/4” Pin) and #30 (1/8” Pin)

I then take the billet to the saw and remove the excess material.

I then profile the blank to its final dimensions on the KMG with an old 36 Grit Belt. I also use files and wheels to make the appropriate curves in the design.

I used my center scribe to mark the center line of the billet. I do this around the entire blank because I am going to be tapering the tang and distal tapering the blade.

I noticed some high points on the flats that I wanted to knock down so I did a little flat grinding. I didn’t get a photo of this, but you will see in later photos the clean portions on the ricasso and spine where I want to have Forge scale and marks (Brute De Forge). I will have to address this a little later on.

I made a template to mark the planned plunge line on both sides to help keep them as even as possible during the rough grind.

Here I have done my primary grind with Blaze 36 grit belt down to approximately .030” on the edge. In this photo you can see the removed forge marks mentioned earlier. Upon close inspection I can already see the CruForgeV core along the edge. Looks great Mike T!

Now I want to get those beautiful forge marks back for the finish I am going for. Off to the forge and anvil, as many of you may know I don’t have a lot of forging experience. I made a quick phone call to Mike to get some advice, then took the plunge. Brought the billet up to temp. making sure to keep the billet flat on the anvil began hammering. Also ran it through a few normalizing cycles to relieve any stress during forging.

Now to taper the tang, I hog out the center of the tang to make the taper easier to flat grind.

I wanted to make sure the handle scales would line up nicely but need to keep that forge finish in the ricasso. I also took the belt grit up to 120 so she is ready for HT!

Here is a before and after comparison photo to show the Brute De Forge finish.

 

[Mike Turner]

Ryan that chopper is looking good and you did a fine job at adding the forge marks back.

 

[BenR.T.]

Looking good Ryan! I really want to try some San Mai in the future, I might have to hit Mike up for a billet.

 

[RyanW]

Thanks Mike, It bent and twisted while hitting it with the hammer but I got it back to straight without too much freaking out! Thanks Ben, I am 100% sure Mike would be happy to get you a billet.

The UPDATE:

A quick photo of the blade fresh out of HT. The CruForgeV called for 1500 – 1550 F and quench in Oil, I am using 11 Second which should be just right from my research. I took it up to 1535 F and soaked for 5 minutes then smoked up the place! It came out pretty straight, made a few small adjustments on interrupted quench.

Here is a close up where you can see the Core peeking through the Wrought Iron.

After cleaning off the quenchant It went into the oven for two 1 Hr. tempering cycles: 425F & 450F which should put it right around HRC 58.

Then to the grinder to take the edge down to final thickness, With bare hands and frequent water dips to make sure I don’t ruin the temper.

Here is the blade after a bit (SIGH) of hand sanding to 220 Grit… Getting pretty excited for the etch later today or possibly tomorrow, Patrice try to compose yourself

Thanks for reading. Feel free to comment, or ask questions...

 

[Calvin Richardson]

Is it wrong that I just giggled like a little girl when I saw that last pic? I'm going to a hammer in at Corbin Newcomb's in Moberly MO next week. If I see anything half this cool, I'm gonna skip around like a little kid!!

 

[RyanW]

Haha thanks Clavin, I have been giggling all day. Have a good time at the hammer in!

 

[RogerP]

Coming along real well.

Roger

 

[RyanW]

Coming along real well.

Roger

Thanks for tuning in Roger you started this whole thing! haha...

 

[RyanW]

*** Update ***

I have Hand sanded up to 600 Grit, I have experimented a little bit in the past and I find that my Makers Mark blurs a little when grit is less than 600. My theory is the etchant runs through scratches a little? Your guess is as good as mine.

My etch process:

1. Wash blade with HOT water and Dish soap, dry with paper towel, wipe down Mark area with Acetone
2. Tape Mark in place with Electrical tape, make sure to cover any area that may come in contact with the current. Making sure to press the tape firmly around the stencil Edges.
3. Attach Ground (Red Wire) to one of the holes in tang, I like to have the blade lay flat on table to avoid any wobble.
4. Apply appropriate etchant fluid to Felt, rub with finger to spread evenly along the pad, dab with paper towel to remove any excess fluid.
5. With Etcher on “Etch” Setting hold on mark for 1 minute. This time varies depending on the hardness of the material you are marking. Where this is Wrought Iron it is fairly soft.
6. Switch to “Mark” Setting Hold on for 5 seconds off for 5 seconds, on for 4 seconds off for 4 seconds and continue to 0
7. Turn off etcher remove stencil and spray blade (and stencil) with Windex (W/ Ammonia in it). Rubbing with Windex soaked paper towel.
8. Take blade inside and wash again with HOT water and Dish Soap
9. Light coat of gun oil over entire blade

Knife ready to be etched

Right after the etch

I then get the 600 grit paper again and sand the mark until it is crisp and clear.

I then continue up through the grits until I am to a Clean 1000 – 1200 Grit finish. I have had some success with only going up to 600 grit on Hamons.

Time to Etch this thing! Patrice you ready?

I use the Ferric Chloride found at Radio Shack Labeled “PCB Etchant Solution” this is full strength stuff. I keep a solution diluted 10 parts water to 1 part FeCl in a large plastic container. I also have a stronger solution (2 H20 / 2 FeCl) in a small bowl with some Dish Soap added (Thanks Mr. Wheeler).

My FeCl Etch Process: (Hamon’s I do a little differently) This process is a mix of other maker suggestions, personal experimentation and flat out superstition.

1. I wash the Hand sanded blade with HOT water and dish soap, on the side I have a container with Super hot water ready to place the blade in to keep the steel hot.
2. I then place the entire blade in the bottle of 10/1 solution for 30 seconds. Remove blade and rub with a cotton makeup pad saturated with the soapy solution.
3. Allow blade to sit in air for 30 seconds then place in hot water container to warm blade up again.
4. Repeat process until you have the look you want. With Damascus and SanMai (Especially Wrought Iron) I increase the time in the solution each cycle.
5. Thoroughly spray entire blade with 50/50 Ammonia and rub with paper towel
6. Wash hands and entire blade with Hot Soapy water
7. Dry off and apply thin coat of gun oil
8. Flitz polish with a cotton makeup pad

This is the blade after one of the Etch Cycles

This is the blade after etched and cleaned with Ammonia and Washed. The dark on the core is still covered with Oxidation so the contrast is more than it will be after Flitz polish. This always disappoints me. Haha

Here is the oiled up finished Etch

I am working on the handle design and materials.

I hope to get this done in time for OKCA!!! Getting Nervous.

 

[Burl Source]

Very cool pattern in the steel!
Knife's not bad either.

Just teasing you Ryan.
Looks like this will be an awesome knife!

 

[Mike Turner]

Looking good Ryan, can not wait to see what you choose for handle material.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Always love your work Ryan. I picked up a copy of Tactical Knives because you're featured in it, in fact. Your knives are pretty close to my favorites in the whole magazine. Great WIP. Newbie question: Is the etch basically similar to doing a patina, or is there something else going on chemically or something?

 

[RyanW]

Very cool pattern in the steel!
Knife's not bad either.

Just teasing you Ryan.
Looks like this will be an awesome knife!

haha... Mike always gets the love! I will be Mikes apprentice smith in 2 Weeks!
Mark looking forward to getting the package in the mail today, then I have to make a hard decision on what to use for the handle.

Looking good Ryan, can not wait to see what you choose for handle material.

Mike I have a few options headed my way, Mark put some pieces in a box for me, and Mike Davis is sending me a beautiful piece of Ironwood to consider. Getting excited

Always love your work Ryan. I picked up a copy of Tactical Knives because you're featured in it, in fact. Your knives are pretty close to my favorites in the whole magazine. Great WIP. Newbie question: Is the etch basically similar to doing a patina, or is there something else going on chemically or something?

Hey Crimson, I really appreciate it. The article came out really nice, Reuben always does a nice job on his knife reviews.
As I understand it, Etching is just a much faster process than a Patina. Certain acids will oxidize the Carbon, Nick Wheeler actually uses Vinegar and dish soap with multiple applications to pull his Hamons out. I use FeCl cause it is much faster than Vinegar. When etching Damascus and SanMai the soak is longer than when doing Hamons. I am sure someone will chyme in and give you a better explanation as to what is going on exactly in the process.

 

[Calvin Richardson]

It's like the blade has a rainbow of awesomeness. Deadly, deadly awesomeness.

 

[RyanW]

Haha Thanks Calvin!

Weather wasn’t cooperating with us this week

Patrice and I were chatting about materials and the idea came out to find a piece of wood that would mimic the SanMai pattern through the handle. I also wanted to keep the look Dark to match the Brute De Forge Finish. I searched my supply and found nothing that would work.

In my haste I contacted Mark From Burl Source and he (As Always) said he would find some stuff that might work and throw it in a box for me. As well as some pieces I ordered for some other projects in the works. Mike Davis also stepped up with a beautiful piece of Ironwood he had, and he would send it my way for consideration as well. I am always amazed at the generosity found here in the knife community.

Yesterday This showed up in the mail from Mark:

Mikes Package hasn’t shown up yet, No fault of his I am just running short on time. So I looked through the pieces and found the absolute perfect piece. Mark Nailed this one! The bottom left piece is Black Spalted Maple Burl with a perfect EKG line running length wise down the block.

I didn’t have a lot of room to play with, I lined the tang up how I wanted the line to run. The scales are book matched so I wanted to keep them even. I clamped them together, and put them in my drill press vise, making sure the scales were flush with the top of the vice. This will keep everything square during the process.

I don’t like drilling through thick material, the bits tend to grab and heat up more. I drilled 2 alignment holes.

I then separate the scales and insert assembly pins into the alignment holes. Using white out pen outline the tang and again clamp the tang to the scale.

I take each scale to the drill press and finish drilling the remaining holes. Leaving the Assembly pins in place.

Here we have both scales drilled and the tang outlined with white

I am using ¼” and 1/8” Pins, I drill the pin holes a little bigger to allow for easier assembly and better epoxy adhesion. I drill the holes again with #F (1/4” Holes) and #30 (1/8” Holes)

I then drill shallow Epoxy holes to assure Glue will remain in contact with the tang when clamped up.

I decided to add a G10 Liner between the Steel and the Spalted Maple so I Epoxied them up… Normally I do this before any drilling.

here I carefully drill through the Existing holes with the F and 30 bit to punch through the liner material.

I reapplied the White marker to the liners

and Drill the shallow Epoxy holes again, making sure to just reach the Maple scales to increase strength.

I then use the band saw to cut just outside the lines, that way the Epoxy will pool around the tang filling any voids and cracks.

Now I need to make sure the Front of the scales are finished exactly as I want them because I will not be able to work on them when they are attached to the Blade.

Sorry for the blurry photo

I am ready to Epoxy the scales to the Tang. I sand all the surfaces that will be glued with 100 Grit sand paper. Then wipe the surfaces with Acetone to remove any dirt or oil. I use Acraglas from Brownells and love it.

Once I have the pins cut to size I always do a dry run, nothing worse than getting the glue spread everywhere only to find you can’t get it to go together.

I mix the Acraglas (8:2) for larger knives (Or 2 smaller knives) or 4:1 for a small knife. Stir it lightly for 4 minutes then I added Black Dye

I spread the epoxy evenly over both scales making sure to fill all the holes.

I then twist the pins into the appropriate holes to evenly spread glue around them.

I then Slip the tang into place over the pins, and fill the voids with Epoxy

Then I slip the other scale on to the pins, and clamp them in place. Using Acetone I remove any glue that is in the ricasso area, then apply a very light coat of Oil in that area to ensure it is clean.

Now the Acraglas needs to cure….

 

[RogerP]

Really enjoyed that sequence on the handle work. I like the idea of the G10 liners.

Roger