S-5, hard to work with, obtain?

K

KLOW

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Nov 17, 2005
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Hi, I'm considering having a knife maker make me a very large drop point chopper, and am interested in S-5. I've found it on Crucible's site, here is the chemistry:

Carbon 0.60%
Manganese 0.85%
Silicon 1.90%
Chromium 0.25%
Molybdenum 0.30%
Vanadium 0.20%

My question is have any of you knife makers out there used this stuff? Is it more for forging or Stock removal, does it come in limited sizes? Cost of material isn't really an issue. Any input you could give would be welcome.

Thanks
 
It is a shock steel for dies etc.

It probably can be forged, but I would imagine it to be better as a stock removal steel.
 
From MatWeb:

"TLS S5 Shock-Resisting tool steel is a silicon-manganese tool steel which exhibits the highest impact toughness among all of the "S" type steels. The high toughness and the ability to be hardened to 62 Rockwell C make TLS S5 an excellent choice for applications which require higher strength than S7 shock-resisting tool steel. The steel is typically hardened using an oil quench, but for simple geometries, the steel may be water quenched. Typical applications include pneumatic tools, shear blades, mandrels, heavy-duty punches, and stamping dies.
Information Provided by Timken Latrobe Steel."

s5.jpg


On paper this looks like really good stuff to me.
 
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I don't know if any other steel gets as hard with that high toughness. Of course you can expect the wear resistance to be really low.
 
It's like a 9260 with small amount of Cr,Mo, and V. Good steel for impact use.It can be forged .It does decarburize easier than other steels so that has to be watched.
 
All I know is that I did stock removal on some S-7 and it was an ever living b!tch. I now work with cpm154cm and O-1 and love it.
 
I've been interested in S5 for a good long while now. Not many blade makers use it for anything, and they verdict from most folks seems to be "you'll have edge rolling problems".

I'm not entirely sure I believe that. It was my understanding that edge rolling is a plastic deformation, and hardness is the primary way we measure a given materials resistance to deformation, be it plastic or otherwise. It naturally followed then, that at 60 - 61 HRC edges on a blade made from S5 shouldn't roll any more or less than equivalent edges of the same hardness made from any other steel.

Interestingly enough, the inclusion of S5 into a pattern welded blade with L6 and 01 is something I've been working towards. I had designs on doing a Jian for my Sifu (in a couple of years when both my skill as a maker and my equipment on hand are up to the task). Over at another forum, I had some discussions with a man who trades in antique chinese weapons. It seems that at the pinnacle of the art, the chinese jian was made with a single higher carbon core sandwiched san mei style between tougher pattern welded stock, resulting in a blade that had the look of pattern welded steel, the hard cutting edge, and the tough blade body.

Looking at the heat treating info available on Crucible's site, neither the austenizing temperatures, nor the tempering charts seem all that incompatible. I figured a pattern welded L6 / S5 for the outer pattern welded stock and an 01 core. I figured austenize at 1550*f, soak for 30 minutes, quench (or marquench if I have salts available by then), temper at 400*f twice at two hours each.

The only problem I can really see with that sort of arrangement is a bit of unwanted grain growth in the 01. But, it's either that or fail to get the S5 fully into soloution. Overall, I think I'll chance the grain growth the extra 50* is gonna stick me with.

In the meantime, if anyone out there actually has any experience with S5 or any of its direct variants, I'd love to get some input on how it forges, grinds, etc. Whether or not it wleds worth a damn, etc.
 
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