I'm fairly new to the knife world, but have liked and carried several brands of pocket knives over the last 40 years. I have mostly leaned toward single blade knives, though I do own several different types of multiblade knives, and 1 Buck 119 fixed blade 75th anniversary model I received about 6 weeks ago. I do have several EDC knives, but have never spent too much money on them. Through some research, reading here mostly, I have decided I would like to have a single blade either Queen or S&M knife. I have a small collection, maybe 10, mostly run of the mill pocket knives, Though I did splurge on a Buck 112 custom NS finger groove with the mirror finish for a Christmas present to myself. Can you guys give me a little bit more info on the S&M knives like as far as quality, attention to detail, etc. As usual I don't want to spend a lot of money on one, but would be willing to pay a little more for a few good quality traditionals, rather than buying more OTC knives. I have found a couple of Queen and S&M knives I might be interested in, but would like some experienced advice on these two brands or possibly others. Thanks for any and all opinions.
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S&M, Queen traditional knives: opinions please.
- Thread starter gman2304
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There have been a number of threads on this subject. I found this one doing an advanced Google search on bladeforums.com with Queen as the search. This thread seems representative of what I remember seeing on the subject. It is a few years old now.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Want-to-try-a-new-higher-quality-Queen-knife
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Want-to-try-a-new-higher-quality-Queen-knife
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For user knives, I have found few better than Queen Cutlery. They are sometimes finished as well as the best slipjoints out there, sometimes they have some cosmetic issues (blades not centered, springs not flush, hiccups in the blade grinds, poor factory edges). Expect to spend an hour putting a good edge on any Queen knife, but once you do that D2 is far superior to 1095 in edge holding and corrosion resistance.
I have a slipjoint collection with 30+ GEC knives and 4 Queen knives. The Queen knives I've kept are equals or better in fit and finish and walk and talk to my GEC knives. I have had bad luck with S&M quality and don't own any of them anymore.
If I had to carry and really use one production slipjoint for the next decade it would be a Queen Canoe or Trapper hands down over a GEC. Knives are made to cut at the end of the day and D2 blade steel is just so perfect for a user knife.
I have a slipjoint collection with 30+ GEC knives and 4 Queen knives. The Queen knives I've kept are equals or better in fit and finish and walk and talk to my GEC knives. I have had bad luck with S&M quality and don't own any of them anymore.
If I had to carry and really use one production slipjoint for the next decade it would be a Queen Canoe or Trapper hands down over a GEC. Knives are made to cut at the end of the day and D2 blade steel is just so perfect for a user knife.
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As Gary has said above, read as much as you can before making your purchase. I have purchased many Queen and Schatt & Morgan knives over the years and would give you this bit of advice. Try to purchase knives made between 1998 and 2005. I'm assuming you're interested in knives of recent manufacture and not those from the 50's, 60's, 70's.
S&M is the higher quality of the Queen line and will bring more money. Tell us which knives you're interested in.
EDIT: Here are some current Queen single blade knives. All are from the ACSB line (Amber Cut Stag Bone)
#41L Copperhead/Liner Lock 3 3/4"
#11 Utility 4"
#06L Tear Drop/Liner lock 3 3/4" (my favorite single blade Queen)
#20 Large Toothpick 5"
#112 1/2 Medium Toothpick 4 1/4"
#69 Barlow 3 1/2"
S&M is the higher quality of the Queen line and will bring more money. Tell us which knives you're interested in.
EDIT: Here are some current Queen single blade knives. All are from the ACSB line (Amber Cut Stag Bone)
#41L Copperhead/Liner Lock 3 3/4"
#11 Utility 4"
#06L Tear Drop/Liner lock 3 3/4" (my favorite single blade Queen)
#20 Large Toothpick 5"
#112 1/2 Medium Toothpick 4 1/4"
#69 Barlow 3 1/2"
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- Joined
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What's "too much money" or "not a lot of money" in your world? What is "a little more?" It's different for everyone. Check vendor web sites to get an idea for what Queen knives typically run.
I have three Queen knives. One is great, the other two are decent. The decent ones had some fit/finish issues. Both had the typically thick grinds on their blades that Queen is somewhat known for, and with D2 steel it took me some effort to get a cutting edge that I like. I don't know the dates of manufacture but I am guessing 2008-2012 time frame. I have no experience with current Queen products, nor with their Schatt and Morgan line, just those three.
I'm relatively new to knife collecting. Recently I purchased a Queen small toothpick and a Queen traditional Barlow. I am very happy with both and happy with my purchases. Both knives have the D2 steel which in my opinion, is very good. I would recommend a Queen knife to anyone looking to purchase one.
JPD1998
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I've bought about a dozen Queen knives over the years , with about half being Schatt and Morgan. All the Queen branded knives I own have D2 steel blades, the S&M's are stainless.
I agree with Macchina , Queens D2 steel is about the best for a user knife.
But keep in mind, their QC is hit or miss and their customer service is mediocre.
When you do get a well made Queen product , they're really great knives, but several I own should have been sent back. One did go back.... I won't go into details, but lets just say it wasn't a great CS experience.
If you you're looking for a single blade traditional , I can recommend the Queen Mountain Man in D2, I've got one and it's a beauty.
You didn't mentions Case, I can recommend their backpocket series. Great single blade knife that's really thin in the pocket and there's a lot of variations to choose.
Case can be hit or miss too, but in my experience, I've only gotten 2 lemons out of 20 or more that I own.
But Case took care of the problems promptly and sent me new knives.
Case BackPocket
Queen Mountain Man
I agree with Macchina , Queens D2 steel is about the best for a user knife.
But keep in mind, their QC is hit or miss and their customer service is mediocre.
When you do get a well made Queen product , they're really great knives, but several I own should have been sent back. One did go back.... I won't go into details, but lets just say it wasn't a great CS experience.
If you you're looking for a single blade traditional , I can recommend the Queen Mountain Man in D2, I've got one and it's a beauty.
You didn't mentions Case, I can recommend their backpocket series. Great single blade knife that's really thin in the pocket and there's a lot of variations to choose.
Case can be hit or miss too, but in my experience, I've only gotten 2 lemons out of 20 or more that I own.
But Case took care of the problems promptly and sent me new knives.
Case BackPocket
Queen Mountain Man
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Buzzbait
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I have 5 or 6 Queens of recent vintage. The QC is definitely hot or miss. I recommend handling the knife before you buy it, or purchasing from a vendor that will check out the knife ahead of time for you.
But when they're on, they're really on. Excellent quality when done right.
But when they're on, they're really on. Excellent quality when done right.
I was particularly interested in the S&M #41 folding hunter, and the Queen 41L that bdev mentioned. After looking at the S&M #41 on their website, the quality seemed to be lacking thus the reason for my questions. The gaps between the shield and the handle looked way off. The pins look as if some are ground down with what looks like 'slag' around the edges, and others are protruding above the handle. The GEC knives mentioned, sound like a good possible plan B. I'm not familiar with these knives, can anyone tell me where to find them? Thanks
Dadpool
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Grain of salt, your mileage may vary, everything is personal and anecdotal, and all that, but here's my take. I've been collecting traditional knives for two years, so I'm still a greenhorn compared to many of the fine folks here on the Porch.
The quality breakdown for the 7 Queen-made knives I've owned is:
The quality breakdown for the 7 Queen-made knives I've owned is:
- Excellent: 3
- Good: 1
- So-so: 0
- Poor: 1
- Appalling: 2
- Excellent: 7
- Good: 1
- So-so: 0
- Poor: 0
- Appalling: 0
black mamba
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If the 41 pattern is the size you like, then at just an eighth inch longer closed (3⅞") is the #06L teardrop linerlock. I think for a single blade, it is about the best pattern around, and in the D2 steel is wonderful. I have three of them with different bone handles, and they are all good quality knives. The one problem with this pattern is that some have the blade so low in the well when closed that the edge contacts the spring pin. This can be sharpened out, but it's something to check for. Here are some examples:
2004 stag bone
2008 amber stag bone
2014 brown winterbottom bone
2004 stag bone
2008 amber stag bone
2014 brown winterbottom bone
knifeswapper
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Cory Hess
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If you're looking for a knife to carry and use, get a Queen. I have had very good luck buying from their normal catalog D2 line. I have had mixed results with their short runs and S&M. Even with the good S&M knives I prefer the D2 and lower prices of the Queens.
If you're looking for a knife to store in a safe, get a GEC. They maintain their value very well, and often times increase in value. They make mediocre users. I tend towards larger, hard use type knives. I've had problems with my 23 and 21 both failing to hold up to moderate use. I'd be very hesitant to drop one of their smaller patterns in my pocket if I had any serious cutting to do. if all you're doing is opening mail and slicing apples, they are great. I'm of the opinion that less than half of the knives that GEC has made have ever seen the inside of a pocket. Of those that have been carried I believe that less than half have been used for more than mail and food duty. Of course, I could be completely off-base on this. They're simply my opinions after reading countless posts here, other forums, Facebook groups, and talking to people in person.
The best course of action, in my opinion, is to pick out a Queen from a dealer such as KnivesShipFree and then give them a call. They are more than willing to go through their stock and pick out a good knife based on your criteria. I have not yet been disappointed by any knife I've bought from them. If you do happen to be disappointed by a KSF knife, they'll take it back and make sure you are happy. There are others that offer similar service. Some dealers will refuse to check a knife before sending it out and some will charge you a fee to take back a bad knife. Make sure you check the return policy before buying and call to talk to a person and find out if they're willing to take some time to make sure you get a good experience. There are plenty of dealers out there, no reason to buy from somebody offering less than stellar service IMO. In my experience, the choice of dealer is much more important than the choice of knife manufacturer from a customer service perspective. GEC and Queen both have terrible customer service in my experience. I've never dealt with Case's customer service department and Buck's is absolutely phenomenal. Seeing as you're considering a Queen or GEC, I would be much more comfortable dealing with a quality dealer than either factory.
If you're looking for a knife to store in a safe, get a GEC. They maintain their value very well, and often times increase in value. They make mediocre users. I tend towards larger, hard use type knives. I've had problems with my 23 and 21 both failing to hold up to moderate use. I'd be very hesitant to drop one of their smaller patterns in my pocket if I had any serious cutting to do. if all you're doing is opening mail and slicing apples, they are great. I'm of the opinion that less than half of the knives that GEC has made have ever seen the inside of a pocket. Of those that have been carried I believe that less than half have been used for more than mail and food duty. Of course, I could be completely off-base on this. They're simply my opinions after reading countless posts here, other forums, Facebook groups, and talking to people in person.
The best course of action, in my opinion, is to pick out a Queen from a dealer such as KnivesShipFree and then give them a call. They are more than willing to go through their stock and pick out a good knife based on your criteria. I have not yet been disappointed by any knife I've bought from them. If you do happen to be disappointed by a KSF knife, they'll take it back and make sure you are happy. There are others that offer similar service. Some dealers will refuse to check a knife before sending it out and some will charge you a fee to take back a bad knife. Make sure you check the return policy before buying and call to talk to a person and find out if they're willing to take some time to make sure you get a good experience. There are plenty of dealers out there, no reason to buy from somebody offering less than stellar service IMO. In my experience, the choice of dealer is much more important than the choice of knife manufacturer from a customer service perspective. GEC and Queen both have terrible customer service in my experience. I've never dealt with Case's customer service department and Buck's is absolutely phenomenal. Seeing as you're considering a Queen or GEC, I would be much more comfortable dealing with a quality dealer than either factory.
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Cory, Those are strong words and might get you stabbed in these parts. 
Although I suspect many knives are bought as pocket jewelry or for resale, I think that has more to do with the buyers than the knives. I do think that GEC makes knives that are suited to be used. Aside from D2 holding an edge longer than 1095, I'm not sure why you would think GEC knives hold up any worse. What specifically were the problems? I've owned a LOT of OLD Queen made knives. The few RECENT Queen made knives that I've owned are short runs and they were disappointing but you also expressed mixed experiences with those knives.
Although I suspect many knives are bought as pocket jewelry or for resale, I think that has more to do with the buyers than the knives. I do think that GEC makes knives that are suited to be used. Aside from D2 holding an edge longer than 1095, I'm not sure why you would think GEC knives hold up any worse. What specifically were the problems? I've owned a LOT of OLD Queen made knives. The few RECENT Queen made knives that I've owned are short runs and they were disappointing but you also expressed mixed experiences with those knives.
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Cory - what are the scenarios where you feel a GEC is an inadequate knife? And what do you mean by "failing to hold up to moderate use"? Is it just edge retention of the 1095 vs D2 steels?
I am not attacking your observations, just trying to understand what circumstances you are talking about.
I am not attacking your observations, just trying to understand what circumstances you are talking about.
knifeswapper
Knife Peddler
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Many folks have an opinion one way or the other. You never really know why/how they form their opinion. Some are bought, some are good/bad experiences, and any other of a multitude of reasons. But the market seldom lies over time. If there is a maker that has inconsistent quality, the dealer should probably check them as they come in the door instead of check them as they go out the door. Read reviews and overviews from as many people as possible before forming an opinion; as many times if you are not paying attention you will be reading the same opinion over and over. Those that feel they need to sway your opinion are seldom un-biased in the first place. Finally, the best opinion available is your own. Go to a knife show or purchase from a dealer that has a liberal return policy. You might need to pay shipping both ways, but that is still cheaper in most cases than going and picking it up at a storefront or show. Don't pay attention to return policies, ask the dealer what their return policy is. Dealers have to post return policies for those that would abuse the system. Most dealers are fairly liberal when it comes down to it. But some post very liberal policies and then slam the door once the package leaves the building.
Luckily, there is very little politically motivated posting here. Opinionated yes; but that is what many people come here to find. But KSF is as good a dealer as you can find, and most other mid-tier dealers got that way by treating customers right.
Luckily, there is very little politically motivated posting here. Opinionated yes; but that is what many people come here to find. But KSF is as good a dealer as you can find, and most other mid-tier dealers got that way by treating customers right.
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Cory, I also am just discussing... and some joking around too. Although we sometimes disagree, I enjoy our discussions and appreciate your opinions. I think I would have a hard time picking any Queen knife that I've ever owned as being more suitable for use than the GEC 66 with micarta. Very well made knife. Great grinds. Excellent mechanics.
Modoc ED
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Who says GEC knives can't be worked hard? These three no longer belong to me but I'm sure the new owner won't mind me showing them.
Here they are new in the first picture and then after heavy use in the second picture.
And here are two more pictures of the same knives.
You can work a GEC knife hard all day long - it's just a matter of how much you're willing to put your shiny, pristine, expensive knives through.
As to the question asked in this thread's title - Queen/S&M put out some very decent knives until Bill Howard bled off the talented cutlers and took them to GEC with him. Since about 2008, I've found Queen/S&M to be hit and miss.
Here they are new in the first picture and then after heavy use in the second picture.
And here are two more pictures of the same knives.
You can work a GEC knife hard all day long - it's just a matter of how much you're willing to put your shiny, pristine, expensive knives through.
As to the question asked in this thread's title - Queen/S&M put out some very decent knives until Bill Howard bled off the talented cutlers and took them to GEC with him. Since about 2008, I've found Queen/S&M to be hit and miss.
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