S110V and WorkSharp

[BD_01]

Hi all,

Anyone have experience sharpening s110v with a WorkSharp?
I have a PM2 s110v that I just can't get beyond "working sharp-pluss" on my Ken Onion edition. It's a respectable edge, but not the neurotic sharpness I dream of. I'm using the guide at 17.5 degrees, low speed to take it easy.

If you have experience with s110v on the WorkSharp, I'd like to hear about it, and any pointers you can offer.

Thanks!

 

[Jason B.]

It's because the Vanadium carbides in the steel are harder than the abrasive on your belts. To properly sharpen these steels diamond or CBN is recommended.

 

[cbwx34]

Hi all,

Anyone have experience sharpening s110v with a WorkSharp?
I have a PM2 s110v that I just can't get beyond "working sharp-pluss" on my Ken Onion edition. It's a respectable edge, but not the neurotic sharpness I dream of. I'm using the guide at 17.5 degrees, low speed to take it easy.

If you have experience with s110v on the WorkSharp, I'd like to hear about it, and any pointers you can offer.

Thanks!

I have a Kershaw in S110V that I just tried... belts seem to work no problem.

Noticed your new, so forgive if you already know all this, but have you apexed the edge, removed the burr, etc., or are you just following the WorkSharp directions of 8-10 passes... ? What belts do you have? How do you finish the edge? (Basically, can you describe your process a bit more?)

What exactly are you looking for in the edge?

Edit: p.s. My guess would be, that if you're lowering the angle, and running at a low speed, you haven't reached the edge. Especially if reprofiling a factory edge... could take a while... (especially since it's a higher end steel).

 

[Krav]

Hi all,

Anyone have experience sharpening s110v with a WorkSharp?
I have a PM2 s110v that I just can't get beyond "working sharp-pluss" on my Ken Onion edition. It's a respectable edge, but not the neurotic sharpness I dream of. I'm using the guide at 17.5 degrees, low speed to take it easy.

If you have experience with s110v on the WorkSharp, I'd like to hear about it, and any pointers you can offer.

Thanks!

I tried sharpening a military s110v blurple on my work sharp. It did remove material but I couldn't get a really sharp edge, and I think it didn't help my belts to much as for lasting longer. While I could slice phone book paper I could never get it to push cut. I'll have to use the diamonds on the WIcked Edge if I want it any sharper. Thanks Jason. 👍

 

[BD_01]

Hi CBWX34,

I've been a lerker for the last 4-6 months.

I started with the coarse belt (not the extra coarse) and raised a burr. I then worked down through the rest of the belts, alternating 10 per side several times on each belt, but not raising a burr before stepping down. I spent a lot of time on fine, then a fair amount on extra fine.

Are you working one side to a burr on each belt, then doing the same on the other side before switching to a finer belt?

Thanks!

 

[Cyrano]

... I started with the coarse belt (not the extra coarse) and raised a burr. I then worked down through the rest of the belts, alternating 10 per side several times on each belt, but not raising a burr before stepping down ...

In my use of the WorkSharp Ken Onion with Blade Grinding Attachment, the burr I form using the coarsest belt persists through subsequent finer belts. With each finer belt, the burr is incrementally reduced. The burr is completely gone only after the finest belt.

If you don't detect any burr during use of the finer belts, how do you know the work you're doing with the finer belts is actually affecting the edge apex? Absent a burr, it seems possible that the finer belts are polishing the shoulder of the edge, but not reaching the apex.

 

[banksy]

In my use of the WorkSharp Ken Onion with Blade Grinding Attachment, the burr I form using the coarsest belt persists through subsequent finer belts. With each finer belt, the burr is incrementally reduced. The burr is completely gone only after the finest belt.

If you don't detect any burr during use of the finer belts, how do you know the work you're doing with the finer belts is actually affecting the edge apex? Absent a burr, it seems possible that the finer belts are polishing the shoulder of the edge, but not reaching the apex.

This is how I work on the BGA too except that I remove what's left of the burr on a piece of wood before the finest belt.

 

[Haffner]

One idea is to get at loupe and try to see, what is going on.

The way I would do it is this...

- Sharpen first side of the knive on the BGA attachment

- Examine sharpend side for scratch pattern etc.

- Flip blade & computer with unsharpened side.

- Sharpen sekund side onsdag BGA.

- Compare equally sharpend sides. Check Burr, scratch pattern etc.

- Move to nemt belt in your progression. Sharpen first side.

- Check Burr, compare finer scratch pattern on this side with coarser pattern on otter side...

- Continue this way untll you have gone all the way through your progression....

This way you can follow every step in your process untill you are done.

I have a bad memory so one day I hope to use at computer microscope som I can save images from every step and compare all My steps on the screen.

Hope this gives you some inspiration.

Myten loupe is a 150 dollar microscope that i onde Göteborg!!! But we all agree you can do with a cheap one. There are many trends about getting a loupe btw..m

 

[cbwx34]

Hi CBWX34,

I've been a lerker for the last 4-6 months.

I started with the coarse belt (not the extra coarse) and raised a burr. I then worked down through the rest of the belts, alternating 10 per side several times on each belt, but not raising a burr before stepping down. I spent a lot of time on fine, then a fair amount on extra fine.

Are you working one side to a burr on each belt, then doing the same on the other side before switching to a finer belt?

Thanks!

Sounds like you're on the right track. Once a burr is raised... no need to do it again, since you know the abrasive is now reaching the edge. I pretty much do what you do... raise the burr once... then alternate with the finer belts.

Jason is right in that, when you go to finer and finer belts, they become less effective, so you may have to spend more time then what you might consider "normal" to refine the edge. And again, it depends on what level of "sharp" you're looking for. For example, I finished sharpening that Kershaw knife yesterday using just the WS belts, and while it had no problem with phone book paper, receipt paper, shaving arm hair, etc., I doubt it would "whittle a hair" or cut a "freestanding page from a phonebook"... for that you would probably need to switch to diamond or CBN, (or spend a lot of time with the finest belt, and may not be worth it). So, you might consider a diamond or CBN strop to finish/improve the edge. (And, my apologies to Jason, for making it sound like he was wrong in his statement... it's definitely true, especially at the finest abrasive levels... diamond/CBN is a better option).

In my use of the WorkSharp Ken Onion with Blade Grinding Attachment, the burr I form using the coarsest belt persists through subsequent finer belts. With each finer belt, the burr is incrementally reduced. The burr is completely gone only after the finest belt.

If you don't detect any burr during use of the finer belts, how do you know the work you're doing with the finer belts is actually affecting the edge apex? Absent a burr, it seems possible that the finer belts are polishing the shoulder of the edge, but not reaching the apex.

IMO, there's no need to specifically raise a burr more than once, (although one will inevitably be there). You know the finer belts are reaching the edge, simply because, unless something changes, it has to be... and you'll see it in the bevel if it's not.

 

[Cyrano]

... IMO, there's no need to specifically raise a burr more than once, (although one will inevitably be there). You know the finer belts are reaching the edge, simply because, unless something changes, it has to be... and you'll see it in the bevel if it's not.

I agree. The burr should be there, unless something changes. My intent was to examine if the OP's procedure is causing something to change.

A better way to phrase the question to the OP would be: during your use of the finer belts, do you inspect the edge to assess the burr?

A pair of these IKEA lamps gives me bright spot lighting on the work area, which makes it easy to see the burr come and go. After the initial burr is raised, I can see the burr re-created on each new pass.

 

[Jason B.]

When sharpening high Vanadium steels on belt grinders it's best to set the edge with a coarse belt ( I use a 120 grit) then move straight to finish polishing. High quality Chromium Oxide on a leather belt/wheel will work to remove the burr but it takes some finesse to not round out the edge. You just want to remove the burr because unlike other steels it won't polish to a sharper level, instead it dulls it.

You can also switch to a very fine stone at this point and bring out a higher degree of sharpness. Spyderco UF or a 8k Shapton Glass have both worked for me. Just a handful of strokes though, too much and your back to square one.

 

[Cyrano]

... When sharpening high Vanadium steels on belt grinders it's best to set the edge with a coarse belt ( I use a 120 grit) then move straight to finish polishing.

This is good to know! I'd always assumed the full progression of belts was optimal in all cases.

Is there a rough threshold of V content, above which your advice applies?

 

[Jason B.]

4% is my cutoff point in most cases but there is always variables. Some even call it "my 4% rule".

The variables are mainly heat treat quality and how fine of an abrasive you plan to use. Better HT allows better carbide formation which adds to the wear resistance and difficulties in sharpening. The abrasive used can be about anything to around 1000 grit. Beyond that the abrasive size starts getting too close to the carbide size and the interaction between the two starts having negative effects on the edge sharpness. It's at this point a harder abrasive is required.

 

[BD_01]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Jason B. What you're saying strikes a cord with me. I've had a feeling that just about when I have my s110v to the level of sharpness I want, trying to take it to the next level actually takes me backwards.

If I read you correctly, I'll experiment with raising a slight burr on a coarse belt, then jumping straight to a fine/extra fine belt, just until the burr is knocked down, and see where that leaves me.

For others on the string, pushing a burr back and forth through the varying belts has worked really well with less exotic steels, but the s110v has been giving me fits.

 

[cbwx34]

I put a bit of diamond spray I had on the polish belt... made a definite improvement to the S110V edge. Might be a route to consider.

I also noticed WorkSharp is now selling diamond belts for the Ken Onioin version (labeled for sharpening ceramics). A bit of $$$ though.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I put a bit of diamond spray I had on the polish belt... made a definite improvement to the S110V edge. Might be a route to consider.

I also noticed WorkSharp is now selling diamond belts for the Ken Onioin version (labeled for sharpening ceramics). A bit of $$$ though.

The danger in powered grinding of steel knife blades with diamond is, the diamond breaks down with heat and will also react with the steel (because diamond is carbon, which has an affinity for iron), which could ruin the expensive diamond belts quickly. It's why diamond is generally avoided in industrial applications for powered grinding of steel. For powered grinding of high-wear steels in industry, the alternative to diamond is CBN belts/wheels, which aren't reactive to the steel and won't degrade as easily with heat. The labelling of the diamond belts, for ceramics only, should be taken seriously.


David

 

[cbwx34]

The danger in powered grinding of steel knife blades with diamond is, the diamond breaks down with heat and will also react with the steel (because diamond is carbon, which has an affinity for iron), which could ruin the expensive diamond belts quickly. It's why diamond is generally avoided in industrial applications for powered grinding of steel. For powered grinding of high-wear steels in industry, the alternative to diamond is CBN belts/wheels, which aren't reactive to the steel and won't degrade as easily with heat. The labelling of the diamond belts, for ceramics only, should be taken seriously.


David

Good to know... thanks!

 

[mycough]

The danger in powered grinding of steel knife blades with diamond is, the diamond breaks down with heat and will also react with the steel (because diamond is carbon, which has an affinity for iron), which could ruin the expensive diamond belts quickly. It's why diamond is generally avoided in industrial applications for powered grinding of steel. For powered grinding of high-wear steels in industry, the alternative to diamond is CBN belts/wheels, which aren't reactive to the steel and won't degrade as easily with heat. The labelling of the diamond belts, for ceramics only, should be taken seriously.


David

Well said, whole other deal than hand sharpening.
Russ

 

[kwackster]

Powered grinding with diamond can work extremely well & with great longevity for the diamond particles involved if you use a good coolant.
For my Rubber Wheel coated with 230 grit diamond powder i use wax, and for my Paper Wheels coated with various fine diamond compounds i use oil.
These coolants both protect the edge apex as well as the diamond particles from overheating / degrading.

Besides it's extreme hardness diamond also has another useful property: a very high thermal conductivity, even higher than CBN.

The advantage of this specific property in CBN is best explained in this YouTube clip:

[youtube]wgpuN6GXKfY[/youtube]

 

[Krav]

I put a bit of diamond spray I had on the polish belt... made a definite improvement to the S110V edge. Might be a route to consider.

I also noticed WorkSharp is now selling diamond belts for the Ken Onioin version (labeled for sharpening ceramics). A bit of $$$ though.

I just bought the diamond belts for my work sharp course and fine, it definatly helped the edge. S110v I'm my opinion is finicky steel to sharpen. Still not sure if I'm sold on this steel, I'll keep working with it and give it a chance.