S30V and 440C

mathman

mathman

Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
186
OK, I admit that I am fairly new to knives and new to this forum, but bear with me...an idiot I am not.

I have already searched and searched on this and all I seem to get are OPINIONS.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of S30V and 440C...is S30V better in every way? (It sure costs a hell of a lot more!) I am looking at the Benchmade Outbounder for a possible outdoor/hunting/fishing(?) knife. I don't particularly care for the Chairborne Ranger Super Tactical Knives. The Outbounder seems to be a decent knife and is sold at a good price compared to the S30V knives. Will this knife serve me well for these purposes? Will an S30V knife be MUCH better in a similar blade style?

Any and all information is appreciated...thanks.
 
Both are premium steels. The 440C has been around a long time and has its merits. One being superior rust resistance over S30V and many other steels too. If the S30V is bead blasted it can be prone to forming surface rust.

As for edge keeping I don't think anyone will argue that S30V beats out 440C there. Both do well and other than the recent chipping problems that have been reported with some of the S30V blades I doubt you can go wrong with either one.

I favor 440C but I'm old school and grew up with it. I have knives with both steels and both are great. I've never had any rusting problems with any of my 440C blades. If you like a mirror polish 440C is probably a much better choice also. It is preferred by many custom knife makers because it can be brought up to such a high polished look. In fact it is used for making mirrors just for this reason.

Again both are premium steels. I don't think 440C is going to hold up as well for edge holding though.
 
According to the technical data, if heat treated correctly and optimally (which doesn't necessarily imply the same hardness or schedule), S30V should be a whole lot more wear resistant, and quite a bit tougher and AFAIK should have quite a bit better edge holding. It should be more tedious to reprofile (whether that is more difficult or not is up to you) and the corrosion resistance should be in the same ball park, maybe not quite as high. And it is a lot more difficult to finish apparently.


However, whether S30V really makes for a much better bladesteel, will depend on many variables and in the end is still your own personal decision. You just have to come to grips with the fact that some things just can not be measured in numbers. In the end you really need to try it out for yourself. This is why you get only opinions. If you don't like the opinions of others, you have to form one yourself. One thing should be pretty clear by now though. Both are very good blade steels.
 
IMHO, a well made knife by an maker who properly heat treats it will be a well made knife with either of these steels, but get what you feel most comfortable with. I don't either will ever fail you.
 
I can think of a few of pluses for 440c over S30v, one may be pretty important as a newby to knives.

Already mentioned is rust resistance, 440c gets the nod.

In a big blade I would tend to lean towards 440c (depending on intended use) because in my experience it is less brittle than S30v. This is important for chopping.

Finally, 440c is going to be MUCH easier to sharpen for a novice. I think sharpening experience should be gained using some of the steels that are less abrasion resistant. Abrasion resistance is nice but everything needs sharpened at some point, otherwise you have a couple hundred dollar butter knife.

Every day there is a post here from someone new to knives asking how to put an edge on their BG42, S30V even ATS34 blade. Steels like 440c, AUS8, VG10 and carbon are easy to sharpen and do a nice job of edge retention.
 
Thanks for the responses. I think I will probably get the Outbounder...I like the idea of having a knife that I can sharpen myself. I have a Ritter S30V and really like it, but there is no way that I can do a good job of sharpening it.

Just as a note, I think that when the latest greatest thing comes along, people are quick to jump aboard and say that everything that came before it is far inferior and worthless...whether it's knife steel, cars, guns, computers, etc...in my opinion, although it is nice to see the technological advances, the old stuff still works just as good as it used to...I'm rambling now...thanks again.

Keep the responses coming...
 
mathman said:
Thanks for the responses. I think I will probably get the Outbounder...I like the idea of having a knife that I can sharpen myself. I have a Ritter S30V and really like it, but there is no way that I can do a good job of sharpening it.

Just as a note, I think that when the latest greatest thing comes along, people are quick to jump aboard and say that everything that came before it is far inferior and worthless...whether it's knife steel, cars, guns, computers, etc...in my opinion, although it is nice to see the technological advances, the old stuff still works just as good as it used to...I'm rambling now...thanks again.

Keep the responses coming...
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I totally agree with you. With all the so called "super steels" that have come out in the last 10-20 years 440C sometimes gets lost up in the shuffle. The fact is 440C always has been a great (not to mention economical) all-around knife steel, and will continue to be no matter what pops up in the future.

I recently bought an outbounder and I love it. The knife is a bit smaller than I had thought but works out perfectly as a light to medium duty sheath knife for kayak fishing and camping on the Brazos River in Central Texas. Very nice looking knife w/stabilized rosewood scales, and at only 3.2 oz you hardly know it's there. As with all Benchmade knives, the heat treat is top notch. The outbounder takes an extremely nice edge and holds it very well.
 
If you like the Outbounder, get it, you aren't gonna get hurt.


well............untill you cut yourself, but you know what I mean.:D
 
Where is the best place to buy knives like the Outbounder...where I live, there are not any stores that carry it for a reasonable price. I looked on ebay and there are a few places listed for prices around $70 (like knifestore, etc...). Does anyone have experience buying knives on ebay? Is this something I should pursue? Thanks again!
 
The best knife is the one you use. The one you know will not let you down because you have used it before. You have to test for yourself. To make sure YOUR knife is a good knife and not just a good name brand or a good steel. Carry it with you everywhere you can and use it. Get to know it. This is the only way to know for sure if you made the right choice.
Hope this helps,
-c.
 
I buy my knives almost exclusively at www.newgraham.com. The prices are very good, and the service and reliability is stellar. Their price on the Outbounder is $69. If that price is low enough for you, I would order from them.
 
HoB said:
I buy my knives almost exclusively at www.newgraham.com. The prices are very good, and the service and reliability is stellar. Their price on the Outbounder is $69. If that price is low enough for you, I would order from them.
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I will go along with this. New Graham Knives and AG Russell are were I get the majority of my knives.
 
I should add that there a other very good online knifestores out there, that also have a presents here on the forum. I had good experiences with www.knifeworks.com, I have never ordered from www.knifeoutlet.com, but the guy who runs it is a regular here on the forum and he made a very solid impression on me and A.G. Russel has some very interesting special editions that you can buy only from them.
 
you should consider rwl 34 which is a swedish powder metalurgical stock and is available for arond the same price. rwl 34 is a martensitic stainless steel and is patterned similar to damascus and is infact one of the constituents of swedish damasteel
 
cpirtle said:
Finally, 440c is going to be MUCH easier to sharpen for a novice.
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440C is no easier to sharpen for a novice. It isn't so much a matter of skill, but what you use to sharpen.
 
Price-performace ratio is hard to beat for 440c. Thats as far as raw materials... the rest is up to the maker.

As said before is hard to measure in numbers. However there is no wrong choice in whichever you choose.
 
Ryan8 said:
440C is no easier to sharpen for a novice. It isn't so much a matter of skill, but what you use to sharpen.
Click to expand...
I disagree, the hard vanadium carbides make it more difficult to sharpen.
 
Larrin said:
...the hard vanadium carbides make it more difficult to sharpen.
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They make it harder to remove material, however the machinability should not be a significant factor as you should not be removing lots of material when sharpening anyway. This is only really an issue the first time you sharpen if the NIB profile is radically different from your preference, in this case reworking S30V can take longer, but assuming it isn't on a big tactical you should be able to do it in a few minutes with an aggressive x-coarse hone anyway.

-Cliff
 
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