S30V and mirror edges.

knifenut1013 said:
So why exactly do you want a mirror edge? just for the sake of being a mirror? You realize with this steel the higher polish is not the most ideal for performance right?
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What finish would be good for S30V? I'd like a mirrored bevel and slightly toothier microbevel.
 
For a microbevel the story will change a bit. You don't really want a polished back bevel when you do a microbevel because the back bevel will do nothing but cause friction in the cut. Its better to leave the back bevel a little coarser to relieve surface friction.

When it comes to microbevels its hard to beat a UF spyderco ceramic. If I want a "polished" edge on S30V then I do the microbevel method with the ceramic followed by a 1 micron balsa strop to clean it up. This edge configuration is very durable, very sharp, and easy to keep that way but because of how smooth the edge is it will glide on some materials.

I have tried many stones and techniques to find the "best" cutting edge for S30V and I repeatedly come back to diamonds. For me diamonds have shown the best edge quality, sharpness, and cutting performance, I wish I could explain exactly why but I can't so you'll just have to take my word for it.

I'm still playing with which one works better but so far it a match up between the EF and EEF plate followed by a bare horse butt strop. I've found any lower and you loose smoothness in the cut and any higher you loose aggressive bite. At the moment my millie (EDC) is finished with the EEF and a horse butt strop, I'm still feeling it out as the bare strop is a new twist but the cutting ability of the edge is the best yet.

Its a hard to describe edge/sharpness because its still "toothy" but smooth, the horse butt strop didn't smooth out the edge like a compounded strop but refined the micro teeth giving a aggressive yet hair splitting edge.

If I had to choose just one way with only a stone and for a hard daily user it would most likely be the EF 1200 mesh. I sharpen by hand though so I don't know if you would see the same result, those perfect bevels look nice but don't act the same as a hand sharpened edge.
 
knifenut1013 said:
So why exactly do you want a mirror edge? just for the sake of being a mirror? You realize with this steel the higher polish is not the most ideal for performance right?
Click to expand...

You haven't seen S30V that I have sharpened. :D :eek:

But then I am different. :)
 
knifenut1013 said:
For a microbevel the story will change a bit. You don't really want a polished back bevel when you do a microbevel because the back bevel will do nothing but cause friction in the cut. Its better to leave the back bevel a little coarser to relieve surface friction.

When it comes to microbevels its hard to beat a UF spyderco ceramic. If I want a "polished" edge on S30V then I do the microbevel method with the ceramic followed by a 1 micron balsa strop to clean it up. This edge configuration is very durable, very sharp, and easy to keep that way but because of how smooth the edge is it will glide on some materials.

I have tried many stones and techniques to find the "best" cutting edge for S30V and I repeatedly come back to diamonds. For me diamonds have shown the best edge quality, sharpness, and cutting performance, I wish I could explain exactly why but I can't so you'll just have to take my word for it.

I'm still playing with which one works better but so far it a match up between the EF and EEF plate followed by a bare horse butt strop. I've found any lower and you loose smoothness in the cut and any higher you loose aggressive bite. At the moment my millie (EDC) is finished with the EEF and a horse butt strop, I'm still feeling it out as the bare strop is a new twist but the cutting ability of the edge is the best yet.

Its a hard to describe edge/sharpness because its still "toothy" but smooth, the horse butt strop didn't smooth out the edge like a compounded strop but refined the micro teeth giving a aggressive yet hair splitting edge.

If I had to choose just one way with only a stone and for a hard daily user it would most likely be the EF 1200 mesh. I sharpen by hand though so I don't know if you would see the same result, those perfect bevels look nice but don't act the same as a hand sharpened edge.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your insight. Much appreciated. :thumbup:

My observations for what they're worth:

I did notice that the S30V seemed to be more aggressive when I used to sharpen with the DMT aligner and finished with the EEF especially on fibrous materials like cloth and sacking. However, I find a more effortless cut(less force applied at the handle) with the edge pro finish on harder materials like wood or rubber. The edge pro edge just seems to perform better for me on sharpening benchmarks like hair whittling and TP slicing. Of course, I still did not strop at the time that I was using the DMT aligner.

I touch up my knives on the Sharpmaker and if they're not too dull, a loaded strop can usually get them back to hair whittling in a few minutes. I only take them back to the sharpmaker if I'm not back to hair whittling in a few minutes.

At the moment, one potential use of my knife is SD so maybe with the level of sharpness I can achieve, maybe a toothier edge will serve me better for SD.
 
knifenut1013 said:
So why exactly do you want a mirror edge? just for the sake of being a mirror? You realize with this steel the higher polish is not the most ideal for performance right?
Click to expand...

Your question is an interesting one and I notice nobody so far has attempted to answer it. I too would like to know. Does a mirroe finish really add to the sharpness of the edge? Does it make the knife a better slicer or a better chopper? Most importantly, does it really matter in the real world of cutting and slicing? Waiting with interest!

Leo ;)
 
knifenut1013 said:
For a microbevel the story will change a bit. You don't really want a polished back bevel when you do a microbevel because the back bevel will do nothing but cause friction in the cut. Its better to leave the back bevel a little coarser to relieve surface friction.

When it comes to microbevels its hard to beat a UF spyderco ceramic. If I want a "polished" edge on S30V then I do the microbevel method with the ceramic followed by a 1 micron balsa strop to clean it up. This edge configuration is very durable, very sharp, and easy to keep that way but because of how smooth the edge is it will glide on some materials.

I have tried many stones and techniques to find the "best" cutting edge for S30V and I repeatedly come back to diamonds. For me diamonds have shown the best edge quality, sharpness, and cutting performance, I wish I could explain exactly why but I can't so you'll just have to take my word for it.

I'm still playing with which one works better but so far it a match up between the EF and EEF plate followed by a bare horse butt strop. I've found any lower and you loose smoothness in the cut and any higher you loose aggressive bite. At the moment my millie (EDC) is finished with the EEF and a horse butt strop, I'm still feeling it out as the bare strop is a new twist but the cutting ability of the edge is the best yet.

Its a hard to describe edge/sharpness because its still "toothy" but smooth, the horse butt strop didn't smooth out the edge like a compounded strop but refined the micro teeth giving a aggressive yet hair splitting edge.

If I had to choose just one way with only a stone and for a hard daily user it would most likely be the EF 1200 mesh. I sharpen by hand though so I don't know if you would see the same result, those perfect bevels look nice but don't act the same as a hand sharpened edge.
Click to expand...

Can you clarify or explain why a polished back bevel will cause friction in the cut? It just seems counter-intuitive to me.
 
leomitch said:
Your question is an interesting one and I notice nobody so far has attempted to answer it. I too would like to know. Does a mirroe finish really add to the sharpness of the edge? Does it make the knife a better slicer or a better chopper? Most importantly, does it really matter in the real world of cutting and slicing? Waiting with interest!

Leo ;)
Click to expand...

I like polished edges because they are more aesthetic, and also they hold their edge longer. I can't post pics because I'm posting from my iPhone, but there is a pictures at a high magnification showing that polished edges are more refined and in turn will hold that edge longer. Maybe someone knows what I'm talking about and will post it up. With mirror edges I'm not looking for a better cutting experience, I'm looking for edge retention and looks. Hope this answers your question.
 
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BladeChemist said:
Can you clarify or explain why a polished back bevel will cause friction in the cut? It just seems counter-intuitive to me.
Click to expand...

Think kershaw groove.


Going higher in grit always brings higher sharpness but does not always bring higher edge retention. S30V gets very sharp no doubt but it looses performance and edge wear qualities after 10k like most steels will, ever notice how S30V tends to roll its edge when finely polished?



I like polished edges because they are more aesthetic, and also they hold their edge longer. I can't post pics because I'm posting from my iPhone, but there is a pictures at a high magnification showing that polished edges are more refined and in turn will hold that edge longer. Maybe someone knows what I'm talking about and will post it up. With mirror edges I'm not looking for a better cutting experience, I'm looking for edge retention and looks.
Click to expand...

I understand what your trying to say and to a point its true but when you look at high magnification pictures on the regular your views about how a edge wears and what's best changes quickly.
 
I find that S30V (and its cousin, D2) cut better with slightly coarser edges. DMT fine (green) hones are as fine as I want to go with these steels.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Think kershaw groove.


Going higher in grit always brings higher sharpness but does not always bring higher edge retention. S30V gets very sharp no doubt but it looses performance and edge wear qualities after 10k like most steels will, ever notice how S30V tends to roll its edge when finely polished?
Click to expand...


Nope.....

The polished 30V blades I cut with still looked like I never cut anything after testing, no rolls etc.

Now D2 took some edge damage in the cutting tests.
 
Ankerson said:
Nope.....

The polished 30V blades I cut with still looked like I never cut anything after testing, no rolls etc.

Now D2 took some edge damage in the cutting tests.
Click to expand...


It's not something that will show when cutting rope or any type of abrasive test, abrasive cutting is home for these steels at any finish. Testing gives you a idea but is far from what happens in "real world" use.

Did you use visual inspection or magnification?
 
knifenut1013 said:
It's not something that will show when cutting rope or any type of abrasive test, abrasive cutting is home for these steels at any finish. Testing gives you a idea but is far from what happens in "real world" use.

Did you use visual inspection or magnification?
Click to expand...

I did both, well under a magnifying glass under bright light, same as all the blades I cut with. Any rolling or chipping will show up big time in the form of shiny spots on the edge.

I have also beat on the polished edges (Strider/ ZT) and didn't notice any chipping or rolling either. Battoning them through wood.
 
Ankerson said:
I did both, well under a magnifying glass under bright light, same as all the blades I cut with. Any rolling or chipping will show up big time in the form of shiny spots on the edge.

I have also beat on the polished edges (Strider/ ZT) and didn't notice any chipping or rolling either. Battoning them through wood.
Click to expand...
You sir, are a monster truck that walks like a man:D.
 
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