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S30V Broken Blades
- Thread starter Tazz10m
- Start date
Thanks for all the responses, everybody!
Well, judging by the fact that there are hardly any reports here of "unjustly" broken blades, S30V seems to hold up pretty well to "average use". Although, i was hoping to get more reports of "abusive use" that could give me a better idea of what S30V does in the extreme. I did try the search function before i ever started this thread...several times. Thanks to you guys, now i know why it didn't work.
For all you guys that break blades... hey, don't feel too bad... i've broken a several in my lifetime and, although it can be heartbreaking sometimes, it teaches a lot about what works and what doesn't and why... and what not to do next time...hahaha. What was that they say about skiing? If you're not falling down you're doing it wrong?
I've also experienced some absolutely amazingly strong knives because of the way i've used them. Of particular note is the original Ka-Bar and a few big STAINLESS diving knives of the 1970's vintage. As a 15+ year old kid i used to go out to Catalina Island 26 miles off Los Angeles with my buddies about every other weekend. No parents, of course. We lived off the land and ocean there. We used to dive, spear large fish and get abalone for our food, along with prickly pear cactus we found while hiking and exploring. We also would bring the requisite top ramen and whatever canned food.
Quite often we would have to resort to using our knives to open cans when we discovered that nobody had a can opener because it was lost, forgotten or whatever. We all got really good at opening cans with knives... and a few of us got good at sharpening them afterward...hahaha... because there were always fish to fillet and numerous other duties that required a sharp knife...never a dull or broken one. We used these same large knives for hacking thick hard branches to cut a trail or make shelter or tent stakes and any number of other duties. We also ate with them, as in "fork" not just knife. Often we used big round flat stones off the beach for plates. We also sometimes had to use our knives as screwdrivers to fix our gear. They worked fine. Yes, sometimes we snapped a tip. I switched from my Ka-Bar to diving knives for heavy duty work because the diving knives handled the salt water issues much better and were better for chopping, even small trees, if needed.
We never brought hatchets or axes. We found they were a waste of energy. Our knifes worked for splitting large chunks of wood quite well. Although, we found a much better way to "chop" up the wood for the fire... we found we could lay a large hard dry branch at a 45 degree angle up against a tree or boulder and pick up another boulder, lift it up like King Kong and smash it down against the branch and get "logs" as well as kindling for the fire in just a few "throws". Very fast, very efficient, little energy used.
Now... i'm making knives. I don't want to waste my time, energy, and money, making a knife out of a metal that is not right for whatever job that knife might be called on to do. Sure, i've made several knives out of S30V and although i have opened more than a few oysters with them, and cans, and only chipped up the blade edge a little, and snapped of a little of the tip of one, as expected, and chopped a few light little branches with the "pocket" knives i've made, I have not made any "Ka-Bar" or "diving knife" or otherwise "explorer" level fixed blades out of S30V and put them to the Catalina test. And... i don't want to waste perfectly good (and expensive) S30V and all the work that goes into making a large "brute strong" knife if the metal isn't ultimately "right for the tool".
I love S30V... for doing "typical knife type chores". I love the way it sharpens up and holds an edge. I absolutely love the way it hasn't yet corroded even when i wash it in the ocean sea water, wiped, and put away over and over... and it's fairly resistant to scratching. Hey, it does a good job of opening oysters, and cans! BUT, i don't know how well it handles being used as a make-shift pry bar or log splitter.
That's why i asked you guys what your experience was with S30V. I want to make a "brute bowie" out of the S30V, but, i'm not sure it's a good idea. I would rather first learn from other peoples mistakes so i don't repeat them. Yes, i know i will eventually have to put whatever blade i make to the "brute test" if i want to know where it breaks.
So, THANKS again, everybody, and keep those posts coming. If you broke a blade, i want to hear about it. I want to know, best you can tell me, what blade it was and what it actually took to break that blade.
Merry Christmas!
Well, judging by the fact that there are hardly any reports here of "unjustly" broken blades, S30V seems to hold up pretty well to "average use". Although, i was hoping to get more reports of "abusive use" that could give me a better idea of what S30V does in the extreme. I did try the search function before i ever started this thread...several times. Thanks to you guys, now i know why it didn't work.
For all you guys that break blades... hey, don't feel too bad... i've broken a several in my lifetime and, although it can be heartbreaking sometimes, it teaches a lot about what works and what doesn't and why... and what not to do next time...hahaha. What was that they say about skiing? If you're not falling down you're doing it wrong?
I've also experienced some absolutely amazingly strong knives because of the way i've used them. Of particular note is the original Ka-Bar and a few big STAINLESS diving knives of the 1970's vintage. As a 15+ year old kid i used to go out to Catalina Island 26 miles off Los Angeles with my buddies about every other weekend. No parents, of course. We lived off the land and ocean there. We used to dive, spear large fish and get abalone for our food, along with prickly pear cactus we found while hiking and exploring. We also would bring the requisite top ramen and whatever canned food.
Quite often we would have to resort to using our knives to open cans when we discovered that nobody had a can opener because it was lost, forgotten or whatever. We all got really good at opening cans with knives... and a few of us got good at sharpening them afterward...hahaha... because there were always fish to fillet and numerous other duties that required a sharp knife...never a dull or broken one. We used these same large knives for hacking thick hard branches to cut a trail or make shelter or tent stakes and any number of other duties. We also ate with them, as in "fork" not just knife. Often we used big round flat stones off the beach for plates. We also sometimes had to use our knives as screwdrivers to fix our gear. They worked fine. Yes, sometimes we snapped a tip. I switched from my Ka-Bar to diving knives for heavy duty work because the diving knives handled the salt water issues much better and were better for chopping, even small trees, if needed.
We never brought hatchets or axes. We found they were a waste of energy. Our knifes worked for splitting large chunks of wood quite well. Although, we found a much better way to "chop" up the wood for the fire... we found we could lay a large hard dry branch at a 45 degree angle up against a tree or boulder and pick up another boulder, lift it up like King Kong and smash it down against the branch and get "logs" as well as kindling for the fire in just a few "throws". Very fast, very efficient, little energy used.
Now... i'm making knives. I don't want to waste my time, energy, and money, making a knife out of a metal that is not right for whatever job that knife might be called on to do. Sure, i've made several knives out of S30V and although i have opened more than a few oysters with them, and cans, and only chipped up the blade edge a little, and snapped of a little of the tip of one, as expected, and chopped a few light little branches with the "pocket" knives i've made, I have not made any "Ka-Bar" or "diving knife" or otherwise "explorer" level fixed blades out of S30V and put them to the Catalina test. And... i don't want to waste perfectly good (and expensive) S30V and all the work that goes into making a large "brute strong" knife if the metal isn't ultimately "right for the tool".
I love S30V... for doing "typical knife type chores". I love the way it sharpens up and holds an edge. I absolutely love the way it hasn't yet corroded even when i wash it in the ocean sea water, wiped, and put away over and over... and it's fairly resistant to scratching. Hey, it does a good job of opening oysters, and cans! BUT, i don't know how well it handles being used as a make-shift pry bar or log splitter.
That's why i asked you guys what your experience was with S30V. I want to make a "brute bowie" out of the S30V, but, i'm not sure it's a good idea. I would rather first learn from other peoples mistakes so i don't repeat them. Yes, i know i will eventually have to put whatever blade i make to the "brute test" if i want to know where it breaks.
So, THANKS again, everybody, and keep those posts coming. If you broke a blade, i want to hear about it. I want to know, best you can tell me, what blade it was and what it actually took to break that blade.
Merry Christmas!
Well, you are faced with somewhat of a problem. A "brute bowie" really asks for a non-stainless steel because they are significantly tougher and can also be differentially tempered, but those are not ideal for a saltwater environment. Among the stainless steels, H1 would be ideal, because it is very tough and completely and utterly corrosion proof. But I doubt you will be able to get bar stock of H-1. Some people have already inquired about it and were unsuccessful. Remains the option of a sandwiched blade like Fallkniven uses with a VG-10 core. They are very resilient. I know that Nozh2002 has been able to obtain some sandwiched bar stock, so it is possible. But I don't know who will heat treat it for you. I would suggest to call up a professional like Bos and ask him what he heat treats, and what he is able to heat treat for maximum toughness and corrosion resistance. I would also post in the knifemakers section of this forum, but I would suggest wording the title a bit differently. Don't just ask for S30V specifically but explain that you are new to knifemaking and that you want to make a "brute bowie" with good corrosion resistance by stock removal, which material they would suggest, and I am sure you will get tons of good suggestions, better than most people here (including me) are able to provide. As an aside: S30V is a bear to grind, so it might not be the ideal starting material alone from that perspective.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Actually, i'm not all that "new" to knife making. I've made more than a few knives and even sold a few customs for well into the thousands each, although, i've been keeping a fairly low profile and don't even compare to the well known names as far as numbers of knives made. Paul Boz does my heat treating and we have had several conversations about S30V and its potential to perform.
S30V is not all that difficult to hand grind. Just be sure to use ceramic belts and do as much grinding as you can before you heat treat it.
I'm fairly familiar with the other metals out there and their metalurgy, and i would like to try some of that H1. The S30V has proven to be VERY corrosion resistant. I live on the ocean and constantly use my S30V pocket knife to do everything from cutting "sea-soned" ropes to opening oysters. With S30V you can open a few oysters, or clean some fish, wash the blade in the sea water, wipe it off and put it away, leave your finger prints on it and put it away, get rain water all over it and put it away, even chop heavy black berry vines and small branches and put it away, pull it out days later, clean it and look at it and there is NO rust! I am really impressed with S30V in this regard. It is the most corrosion resistant steel i have ever used.
As for the way i originally worded this thread, it was done such in order to get as wide a variety of "broken blade stories" as i could, and as many as i could. I'm actually amazed i didn't get more. That seems to show basically 2 things, either/or that people here are not blade abusers, and/or, S30V holds up pretty good to "typical" abuse...(whatever that is).
As for "brute bowie" stainless, i have no doubt that there are a few different stainless steels that done right will take an enormous about of "brutal abuse". I've taken a few and stabbed them deep into 4x4" pine and literally tore them apart by prying sideways with them with zero knife damage. I've also chopped down several 4-6 inch thick trees (not to mention all the other stuff i've chopped through) with my Al Mar Pathfinder without any damage to the knife.
I guess i'm just trying to get other peoples experiences with S30V rather than just my own so i can get a much wider variety of experience.
So, come on all you fellow wild blade abusers out there, i know you're out there, prying open all manner of things you should be instead using a pry bar for... chime in!
S30V is not all that difficult to hand grind. Just be sure to use ceramic belts and do as much grinding as you can before you heat treat it.
I'm fairly familiar with the other metals out there and their metalurgy, and i would like to try some of that H1. The S30V has proven to be VERY corrosion resistant. I live on the ocean and constantly use my S30V pocket knife to do everything from cutting "sea-soned" ropes to opening oysters. With S30V you can open a few oysters, or clean some fish, wash the blade in the sea water, wipe it off and put it away, leave your finger prints on it and put it away, get rain water all over it and put it away, even chop heavy black berry vines and small branches and put it away, pull it out days later, clean it and look at it and there is NO rust! I am really impressed with S30V in this regard. It is the most corrosion resistant steel i have ever used.
As for the way i originally worded this thread, it was done such in order to get as wide a variety of "broken blade stories" as i could, and as many as i could. I'm actually amazed i didn't get more. That seems to show basically 2 things, either/or that people here are not blade abusers, and/or, S30V holds up pretty good to "typical" abuse...(whatever that is).
As for "brute bowie" stainless, i have no doubt that there are a few different stainless steels that done right will take an enormous about of "brutal abuse". I've taken a few and stabbed them deep into 4x4" pine and literally tore them apart by prying sideways with them with zero knife damage. I've also chopped down several 4-6 inch thick trees (not to mention all the other stuff i've chopped through) with my Al Mar Pathfinder without any damage to the knife.
I guess i'm just trying to get other peoples experiences with S30V rather than just my own so i can get a much wider variety of experience.
So, come on all you fellow wild blade abusers out there, i know you're out there, prying open all manner of things you should be instead using a pry bar for... chime in!
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2006
- Messages
- 43,411
"Premium" ain't required. A Basic Membership does it.
10 smackeroos. Cheap enough that even a penny pinching gent of scottish descent such as I can afford it.
Ante up boys and girls! I think $10 for a year of knife talk is a frickin' bargain.
BTW this isn't Spark holding us ransom. It's a temporary fix for the server locking up because the current search protocol takes up too much resources. But Shucks folks. It isn't like you gotta use all your beer money for this. Come on! Ante up.
It's not quite the same, but I've got a Prybaby in S30V from Peter Atwood (one of the nicest guys I've dealt with). I've subjected that thing to about as much stress as you can reasonably manage, given it's size, and it's held up quite well.
Sorry about that, Tazz. You got some good stories there! What pocket knife did you use?
One thing is beyond me, though: How you open Oysters with a pocket knife. No, I am not fearing for the knife, I would be deathly afraid for my fingers. Opening a few hundred Oysters, I get enough little cuts and nicks with a regular blunt Oyster knife (well, most of the nicks are from the shell....still)...Man, along the image opening oysters with a razor sharp knife gives me the jeebees. One slip and... by, by thumb or index finger.
One thing is beyond me, though: How you open Oysters with a pocket knife. No, I am not fearing for the knife, I would be deathly afraid for my fingers. Opening a few hundred Oysters, I get enough little cuts and nicks with a regular blunt Oyster knife (well, most of the nicks are from the shell....still)...Man, along the image opening oysters with a razor sharp knife gives me the jeebees. One slip and... by, by thumb or index finger.
knarfeng, I'm not so sure Spark should fix it, speaking off topic. Searching every casual look-up for somebody who just inherited grandads old Remington in hopes of a minifortune off Ebay takes up a lot of our server time, if that's what's really going on.
As for S30V, the tip, bevel, grind, and what kind of heat treat will make a difference on the knife's prying abilities. There's a lot more than what steel to decide on.
As for S30V, the tip, bevel, grind, and what kind of heat treat will make a difference on the knife's prying abilities. There's a lot more than what steel to decide on.
No need to be sorry... i still feel like i am new to making knives... there is still so much i don't know and i still keep hitting many of the same bumps in the road that i thought i learned to get around.
The pocket knife(knives) i use to open oysters are ones i've made myself. Actually, i designed them to be able to open oysters and handle all the tasks that other knives i've used didn't handle so well. I hear 'ya about being deathly afraid for your fingers! I always have this picture of stabbing myself in the hand after shoving the knife through the oyster! I can't believe i haven't done it yet! I guess that's why i try to be extra careful and concentrate on technique.
Ok, first, technique #1. By far, the best way i've found to open oysters, so far, is not with an oyster knife... but with a regular SCREW DRIVER! (Hey, it was all i had one day, so i tried it.) You put the screw driver in between the shell halves at the hinge and then twist and pop the hinge. Then you go in with the screw driver and slide through the muscle and your done. You can do the same thing with an oyster knife, but the screw driver pops the hinge easier.
Ok, technique #2... doing it with a pocket knife. Similar to technique #1, you start at the hinge, but you make sure you clear the access to the hinge first by getting out all the grit and then cutting any part of the shell that is in the way so you don't tear up your knife. Next, you poke the tip of the knife blade into the hinge a little and little by little, millimeter at a time, "leverage it" back and forth in the direction of the knife edge so that the tip and edge near the tip slowly cut through the hinge. Now, before you do this you MUST (if you got half a brain in your head) hold the oyster so that when you start in on the hinge, if the knife slips, the knife goes AWAY from your hand and/or any other part of yourself! (You knew that...hahaha...). Once you get through the hinge you can very slowly and carefully twist and pry between the hinge and shells until you get enough space between the shells to get in there and cut that muscle and be eating.
I used to do this with a Spydyco Police model... but it used to tear up the edge near the tip a bit much and i would always have to fix it. Plus... the knife was a gift from Sal Glesser (THANKS SAL!) so, it has some sentimental value and i kept thinking; "What the hell am i doing?!". Anyway, i also got thinking (since i'm a designer/manufacturer anyway) that i should get on with designing and making my version of the ideal knife for the kinda stuff i do with a knife. So... i did. Basically the same size as the Police model but longer, thicker, stronger, recurve, S30V blade with 6-4 titanium frame/handle, pocket clip, and ultra-strong, super reliable, double locking lock...(without infringing on any patents)... which works absolutely wonderful... then made a much smaller version, about half the size... works great... then made a fixed blade version of it.
Now i'm on this "little fixed blade knife kick", but still make and love big knives too. The idea is to always have a knife on me that will get at least "get me by" and, because i really don't like to work any harder than i have to, get the job done easy style... like a bigger knife would.
So, anyway, this little fixed blade knife i carry now (and have opened a bunch of oysters with) has a .170" x 1" x 3" long recurve S30V blade with finger choil, and a handle that is 3.5" long with .10" thick G10 scales... and this little baby gets down! Kydex and polycarbonate sheath lined with AGrip, stainless fasteners. Yes, this is still a "pocket knife". It will fit in your front pocket, no problem, comfortably... but i wear it in the "belt buckle position" so i have easy access and one less thing in my pocket. Works great. Actually, it works so good that i stopped carrying any folders... and i used to carry two!
I must say, though... that when i have an oyster knife on hand... i use it! Damn thing scares the hell out of me, though!
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2006
- Messages
- 2,011
Wow. Time it cut it down to a few less cups of coffee today.
Unless I just completely missed how his post was a directed at you personally.
But hey, looks like that was all straightened out.
BRILLIANT!!!
Must be the coffee that blinds me...
My gosh.... and to think i've already made so many S30V blades... and continue to make them... and have invested so many hours and dollars into making them... Matter of fact, my hands are dusting my keyboard with S30V dust as i type!
How could i be so damn stupid to word my original post in such a way as to bring out responses so thoughtful, meaningful, and indicative, of the audacity of myself to ask such worthless questions as my original post would obviously cause me?
How ineloquent of me!
I guess maybe, next time, i should use fewer words... oh, yeah, and back off on the coffee.
Or maybe i've just been a moderator for so long i'm burned out on thinly veiled smart aleck remarks.
(Gee... i must be getting old... the spell checker doesn't even recognize "smart aleck"... guess maybe i should have used the more common term.)
Or... maybe we should all just let certain people walk all over us when we ask what appears to them to be stupid questions? Maybe smart alecks need "special consideration" as to their needy oversensitive feelings because they were abused as young children?
I don't think so! (WAP!) Homie don't play dat!
It's been said that the stupid question is the one that's not asked.
Merry Christmas, everybody!