S30v = Cpm 3v?

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AdvantEDGE

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Is the S30V Steel is the same as CPM 3V?

Has any thing been tweeked in the S30V making it slightly different than CPM 3V?

I am very interested in getting a CRK Folder made from the S30V Steel.
Following is chemical breakdown on S30V:
C 0.80
Cr 7.50
V 2.75
Mo 1.30

The steel should have even a better chip resistance than the BG-42

If any one has a S30V CRK yet let me know what you think of it!
 
War.Soc.,

Yeah in all the research I have done so far on S30V it is a stainless version of CPM 3V.
I was wondering what was changed to make it so?

I am very impressed with BG-42 so far I have a Sebenza and my Strider AR made from BG-42. It has been great so far.

I am really looking forward to S30V reviews...
 
Hey guys I'm not sure where you got the chemistry from but
it's close to CPM 3V but not quite right. CPM S30V is a true
stainless. CPM S30V is 14.0 Cr as opposed to 7.5 Cr for CPM 3V.
CPM S30V is higher in carbon, 1.45%. If you have any questions e-mail me at bdivita@crucibleservice.com.

HAVE THE BEST DAY EVER
 
Mr. Di Vita,

Thanks for the information WOW it is cool when you post a thread and the actual Crucible Company cares enough to answer it!

CRK is a cool forum.

Anyway thanks for the info on the S30V chem make up
I thought I had correct amounts there.
The higher CR
and the higher Carbon what does that do to the steel?

Low Carbon does that = RUST or is it higher Carbon?
 
It's Bruce, please. I haven't by Mr. since I left active duty in
the Air Force since 1979. Actually the stain resistance is related
the amount of free chrome after your carbides are formed. When you have chrome left over then basically it becomes a stainless steel.
Without the chrome protection the Fe (iron) oxidizes (rust). Tha's pretty simplified but I hope it helps.

Incidentally myself and the rest of the knife team at Crucible are very interested in what all of you have to say and we read your questions and answers frequently. If we can ever answer any question
please don't hesitate to contact us.

Phil Wilson has done a nice article on CPM S30V for the September Issue of Blade.
 
Bruce, thank you for taking the time to contribute to the forum. Would you mind giving us some details behind the development of S30V? How does it compare to the other steels you folks have developed for the cutlery industry?
 
:) Just to give you a little background CPM S30V
is the result of our success with CPM S60V, CPM s90V
and CPM 3V. All these products have had significant
success in the knife industry as well as other areas.
As we attended various shows through out the country the
one question that came up again and again was " Is CPM 3V
a stainless?". The answer is no it is not. The response was
always the same. " This would great if it were stainless ".
We took it to heart and developed CPM S30V. CPM S30V is high in
toughness and wear resistance ( edge retension ) and is a
true stainless. We are just now getting feed back from the
real testing grounds - the people that put it to use in the
field. To date the feed back is better than we anticipated. We
knew it was a very good product but had no idea it was as
good as the praises we've received.

As far as a comparison to other knife steels I'll let you guys be
the judge. One thing I found over the years is there is no
perfect knife steel that satisfies all. Each knifemaker has a
preference that they are comfortable with and that's what they
should go by. Personally I think CPM 3V and CPM S30V can stand
up to any product in the industry today.

I'll be in Atlanta again this year. Come by the booth and say hello.

Have The Best Weekend Ever!
 
Welcome aboard, Bruce! Would you care to make a comparison between S30V and D2? Looks like they have some similar traits! Yes? How would you think they differ? Thanks for any opinions, etc., .....
Barry H
 
Bruce:

I just wanted to say a big Thanks from all of us for jumping into the Forums and giving us the straight scoop!

Of course the fact that I'm waiting on a custom (a Self Knives Portia) in CPM3V does not make me biased at all :)

Thanks again!
 
Let me join Bruce here about the S30V. As for the technical stuff, Bruce is right on it. As for the purpose or reason for it - many of you know the S90V (we used to call it 420V). It was a more wear-resistant upgrade to our 440V. We brought it out a few years ago to improve on the wear & corrosion properties of the 440V. It has been a nice success for us, but only on the very high performance end - think of it as a stainless 10V. Great edge retention in wear, but a little challenging to fabricate & grind (was that understated enough?) The S30V (more on the name changes in a moment) was specifically intended to be a little easier to work with than the S90V. It will still provide better wear & corrosion properties than D2, still should outwear our own 154 CM (or similar Japanese products), will provide something in between them & S90V. It won't wear as long as S90V, for you who want the max in wear life, but it won't make your abrasive belt supplier rich either. Think of these grades in terms of cars. If D2 is a nice full size car, then 154 CM is a Caddy, and S90V is a Maserati. S30V is a 'Vette. Still a high performance ride, just not as rarified as the S90V.

Name change? 440V = S60V, 420V = S90V, new grade = S30V, all the same CPM process. We ran out of hardenable 400 series names to use! The S30V was developed from scratch, not by adding vanadium & carbon to an existing stainless grade like 440C or 420HC, so we didn't have a simple 400-series name to use. Plus, now that we have an actual family of these products, we wanted to develop a family naming style for them.

OK, who's still awake? Can you tell by the length of the discourse that a metallurgist has just checked in?

Kepp calling Bruce for the bladestock, regardless of what you call it. He loves to hear from y'all. We're even happy to sell you A2 if you want it - just ask!
 
Thanks Bruce and ET for the very informative posts. However, I have a question: how do the toughness of S30V and S90V compare? How about grain structure--initial edge sharpness? From what I've read S30V seems to be better in both.
 
Grain structure will be similar for both. There are more carbide particles in S90V, but the basic microstructures are similar. This should make S90V harder to grind, but less likely to abrade once sharpened. I think the wear tests from companies like Spyderco have born this out. In my opinion, any differences in the initial sharpness of similar knives made of these materials are more likely related to the manufacturer's ability to grind them than to any inherent differences in the materials themselves.

As for toughness, yes, the way we measure it (impact resistance) the S30V is tougher than the S90V, although it does not offer the level of toughness that we find in something like the non-stainless CPM 3V. The basic structure of a heat treated high carbon martensitic stainless (i.e. plain old 420, 420HC, 440C, AUS 6 or 8, etc. as well as the CPM stainless grades) seems to limit the toughness. So far, our experience with a wide variety of stainless compositions (in developing the S30V) bears this out. There are other ways to measure toughness, less easily quantifiable in a lab test, such as the ability to flex a filet knife, etc. The S30V seems to offer more improved toughness in many of these kinds of situations than we find in the lab numbers from our impact tests. Frankly, we were a little surprised (and pleased!) at the toughness of the S30V as measured by real world performance in various knife applications, since it seems to do much better than we might have predicted just from our impact data. It seems to be more forgiving in fabrication as well as in service. We think we have managed a pretty good compromise of properties for a high-wear stainless knife. We hope you agree!
 
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