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S30V hardness - questions?

F

Franco G

Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Messages
399
The hardness of the S30V in Spyderco knives is RC 58-59. It is precisely the hardness given for a Sebenza in S30V.

There were a lot of discussions at the Chris Reeves Forum about the hardness - why 58-59 and not 60-61, etc. No clear answer from CR guys except 'Chris knows well what is best for you', etc.

Now, I believe that Sal knows well what is good for us. Still, we have very often read beautiful explanations by him. Maybe , some of the those questions /comments are interesting for other forumites too.

In my opinion/guess a hardness lower than 60 is chosen in order to get a knife which is tougher (less chiping). However, it seems to me that it makes sense to have higher hardness for smaller knives which are big cutters. For example, Delica in VG-10 is RC 60-62, but Police in VG-10 is RC 59-60 (according to the Spyderco www site).
I would like to see some dedicated cutters (a la Delica, Centofante, etc) in S30V steel in the RC 60-62 range, and the other, robust knives, in the lower range.
Is my philosophy wrong?

Regards,


Franco
 
Franco,

I've often wondered the same. Simonich uses the same hardness on his mid-tech Raven, which was tested "see Blade Magazine) by choppin up oak, slicing through concrete blocks and even being hammered through mild steel! It held up amazingly well, all this at 58-59 RC. I would think that 60-61 would be appropriate for folding knives to achieve maximum performance from the steel.

However, it would be more difficult to machine and might chew up belts, thus increasing the manufacturing costs. And different edge/bevel/grind geometries might have to be explored to avoid chipping. Ah, well, we may never know. Kit Carson is making a custom S30V-bladed knife for me. I have the greatest respect for him and his judgement and the S30V will be at (you guessed it) 58-59 RC as well.
 
I remember a similar question posted some time ago by someone who was wondering why in a Catalog (2001 or 2002) the same steel used for different models (unfortunately I don't remember the models, nor the steel, it could be ATS-34, but that's not that important now), had different Rc hardness.
Sal said it's a printing error and both models were using the same steel, with the same Rc.
I also was thinking that a Salsa, for instance, with its small and broad blade, could benefit from a tougher steel, while a longer knife, like the Police, should require a more flexible blade.
 
dialex:
I remember Sal's comment, as you said, but it was something about CPM440V?
If there is an error at the Spyderco's site, somebody would say it, I'm sure.




Blade Santa Cruz:
Nicely written - precisely what I would expect.

Let's wait until Sal/Spyderco kindly helps us.

Regards,

Franco
 
Blade Santa Cruz,

I have just read the thread by Dexter Ewing 'NEW AT SHOT" - the Buck/Mayo TNT Model 172, blade 3 1/8 " long in S30V, RC 61:
From a Buck press release:
Hardened to RC61 for superior edge retention.
Click to expand...

Franco
 
Hi Franco. Edge testing on the CATRA shows that 58-59 on S30V is quite exceptional. The steel can go into the 60-61 range, but we've not tested in that range to date.

According to Crucible, (which I have only 2nd hand info at this time) S30V can achieve the higher Rc, but getting there requires some heat treating materials that are not any longer legal to use in USA production houses. Traditional gas / cryo furnaces can only get to 58-59.

I'll be looking into this more carefull when I return from IWA.

I will say that a serrated Spyderco Native in S30V had an almost flat CATRA curve and racked up more CATRA cuts than any other production steel that we've tested to date.

sal
 
IIRC Paul Bos takes his S30V to RC 59.5-60, double temper normally and triple temper for hard-use blades. Here is the thread. Sal, are you certain about the 58-59 limit? Just curious how Buck gets around this.
 
Hi Steeldriver, thanx for the inof. As mentioned, only received my info 2nd hand and have not tested myself. I'll have to chase it down.

sal
 
Sal,

Would it be possible for Spyderco to build a very large, floating factory in international waters so that your company could produce S30V-bladed knives in the 61+ Rc range?
 
Hi Thom, I'll ask around, they'll probably say yes as long as we "float" to the Carribean.

I'm not sure that a 61 Rc would produce a better knife. Until we test ourselves, I don't know. It's not been our style to just take anyones's word for the performance of their products (including foundries, which we have found to be incorrect on occasion).

We learned that CPM-440V had better edge retention at the lower 55/56 Rc than a higher number by doing our own testing. We even go so far as to have steels analyzed (yes, even competitors steel) for our own "knowledge".

sal
 
Well more can't always be better in every context.

If you had a Carribean-bound S30V-producing barge, I'm sure that a lot of people here would be more than happy to work a few years for just room, board, and knives. Some for just knives or just room and board.
 
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