S30V is better than 440A…how come?

A

anewguy

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May 8, 2003
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I understand that there is a consensus here that S30V is a far superior steal to 440A. However, I don’t know why this is. I am guessing that it is because S30V holds its edge better but if I am understanding things correctly, that means that it is that much harder to sharpen. Is that right? Are there other reasons why S30V is better than 440A (oh yeah, this question concerns a smallish folder, not a fixed blade chopper or anything like that).

thanks
 
Holds better edge, holds longer edge, more rust-resistant.

I guess if you want something that's easy to sharpen, carbon steel is the way to go.
 
S30V is easier to sharpen than 440C.

S30V is a powdered steel that is, in my experience, the least rust resistant of the stainless steels.

I have only gotten surface rust on my S30V knives, it just wipes off with a little bit of flitz.

However, it is sharp, holds the edge way longer than any other stainless that I have used, and very tough.
 
I find S30V harder to sharpen, but easier to touch up.

S30V is only better if you want a blade that takes more abuse before dulling or chipping or you just have to have the flavor of the week steel. I have a feeling that it's going to be a long week for S30V.

440A is excellent stuff. I have some Schrade, MTech, and Kershaw blades with 440A and they're great. Gets as sharp as most every steel is able, often much quicker. It's more available, too, as it's a standard formula and not a proprietary steel.

I'd rather have a Schrade lockback in 440A (Schrade+) than hold my breath and hope they start using S30V, but then, I'd rather have a Benchmade 921 Switchback than a Schrade lockback......
 
S30V has significantly more carbon and therefore better edge retention. The manufacturing process ( Crucible Particle Metallurgy not "powdered steel" )produces smaller, evenly distributed carbides. This improves grindability and adds toughness. So far my S30V blade has proven excellent.
 
Try going here: http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash.cfm

You can download PDF files on S30V and other CPM products. They have great charts that compare toughness and wear resistance vs 440C and 154Cm amd opther steels. Very informative.

Bottom line is that S30V is both tougher and more wear resistant than either 440C and 154CM. The PDF file goes into detail about why.

By the way, I think that 154CM and 440C are also great steels. Just depends on what your needs are.
 
"Harder to sharpen" doesn't really mean much, IMO, because of the ceramic and diamond stones that are everywhere.
 
Harder to sharpen also means that any sharpening mistakes you make are likely to be fixed much more easily.
 
One way of looking at this question is which alloy will you spend more time sharpening over the period of one year? You might spend say that a knife that you sharpen 5 minutes a month provides equivalent service to a knife that you have to sharpen for 60 minutes once a year.

I virtually never like the edge that I get on 440A so I am likely to spend 10 minutes a month fussing over it. While S30V takes longer to remove an equivalent amount of material it takes a finer edge. I would probably spend about 30 minutes every 6 months messing with it. For me the S30V offers more value from this measurement system.

There is another way to look at this. When it is particularly inconvenient for me to resharpen my knife, will it stay sharp long enough to avoid working with a dull knife? Even when I am hunting I bring some type of sharpening tool in my pack or car. What I don't want to have to do is stop in the middle of skinning an elk to sharpen my knife. It is more the inconvenience of cleaning the knife and keeping the carcass clean than just the time of honing. For times like this I really wouldn't want to be working with 440A. The S30V or BG42 would get me through the whole job with a very sharp edge.
 
Reading the metal sites, 440A is typically hardened to about RC 51. S30V is hardened to RC 58-60.

Anecdotally, 440A would be much easier to take to a mirror polish.

S30V will have somewhat better longitudinal toughness and dramatically better transverse toughness than 440A. S30V will have about 50% better abrasion resistance. S30V will have better corrosion resistance (which I didn't realize until I went looking).

440A is about 25% the cost of S30V for a foot of 1/8" x 1-1/2".
 
I am heretofore NOT a steel snob, but I'm not buying any 440A steel anymore. I think 440C is fine, as is 420HC by Buck etc., but 440A and AUS6 just don't cut it. I only have one blade in S30V, the Military, but it is probably the best steel I've used to date.

Simply put (IMO)
S30V>440V=BG42>VG10>154CM=ATS34>ATS55=440C=AUS8>420HC>440A>AUS6>420SJ>stone. There are some other stainless steels that I haven't used, but this is roughly my experience. To be sure, proper and improper heat treatment would juggle this order, as would task specific usage.
 
Originally posted by stich
I am heretofore NOT a steel snob, but I'm not buying any 440A steel anymore. I think 440C is fine, as is 420HC by Buck etc., but 440A and AUS6 just don't cut it. I only have one blade in S30V, the Military, but it is probably the best steel I've used to date.

Simply put (IMO)
S30V>440V=BG42>VG10>154CM=ATS34>ATS55=440C=AUS8>420HC>440A>AUS6>420SJ>stone. There are some other stainless steels that I haven't used, but this is roughly my experience. To be sure, proper and improper heat treatment would juggle this order, as would task specific usage.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this statement.

When I first bought a Strider AR S30V folder, a friend of mine expoused all sorts of issues regarding ease of sharpness and brittleness. To me, S30V is the highest performing stainless steel that I have ever used. It has rusted easier than other steels, it was just surface rust, there have never been pits.

I have never had any problems sharpening the knife, but then again, I have never let it get dull. Honed 5-10 strokes every month on white spyderco rods.

My friend ran out and bought a Strider GB in S30V shortly after.
 
With the right geometry, I can get S30V about as sharp as VG-10 and D2... which is to say, fairly scary sharp. (M2 and O1 are in a category of their own.)

It's not that hard to sharpen, mostly because particles seem to slough off especially compared to 154CM/ATS-34 (full disclosure: I use an EdgePro).

I dislike 440V because of its gumminness -- I find it the hardest of all the major steels to sharpen (although I hear S90V is pretty bad too.) This is becaus it resists wear strongly and is so gummy that the burr flops back and forth no matter how much I try to break it off. The only way I've found is to take an unacceptably high edge bevel....

440C/420HC are fine stainless steels... they take nice edges and are very rust resistant. I like them equally to 154CM because they're easier to sharpen/strop.

I don't like AUS6/AUS8 because they're REALLY soft... I have a CRKT M16 as my beater knife that loses its edge if you look at it funny and cut about 15 lin feet of 2-ply cardboard.

>>> Edit: Uh, sorry... you were comparing S30V and 440_A_... I read 440_V_. 'Scusee.

-j
 
I'm not that impressed with S30V. It's too soft, Spyderco's S30V is the same hardness as their AUS-8. I think it's a step back from VG-10.
 
With toughness on par or better than A2 Tool Steel, and GREAT corrosion resistance, its definitely a step up depending on who does the HT.. Thats just me though.. I have dropped using any other stainless material since I started working S30V..
 
Factories choose steels based on several criteria .440-A,420HC,AUS-6 are all blankable steels which make it easier and more cost effective for a factory to make a knife at a reasonable price.

440-C,AUS-8,S90V,S60-V VG-10,ATS-34 are steels requiring laser cutting ,water saber ,EDM,CNC to profile these alloys.Due to the added wear resistance,carbon etc.Although these alloys may only cost a couple dollars a blade price difference as compared to the stampable alloys the processing of these alloys into precision blades is the costly part. Lasers do not cut smoothly and need a second opperation (CNC) to tighten the tollerances. They also grind slower so fewer knives can be processed per day. They also require special grinding stones and polishing equip to polish which also add to the cost . So the difficulty is determining weather the end user is willing to pay the added costs for using the better alloys . In general every time you add ten dollars to the cost of a knife you loose ten percent of your market.
 
Wolfmann601,
According to Spyderco's website, S30V is hardened to 58-59, which is the same hardness as Spyderco's AUS-8.
And it's only slightly harder than Spyderco's AUS-6 (57-58).

At least the S30V is better than the 440V that Spyderco was using--it was only hardened to 56-57, even softer than the AUS-6.

I've come to appreciate the harder steels because they hold an edge longer (even though they are harder to sharpen).
This is the hardness of some steels per Spyderco's website:

VG-10 59-60
ATS-55 59-60
ATS-34 59-60
440C 58-60
D2, as used by Benchmade is 59-61

And I think BG-42 is even harder.
 
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