s30v... is it brittle?

[peripatew]

Forgive me if that isn't the right word. But I haven't used a s30v blade before. I'm thinking about getting a new folder, and I'm curious about the s30v for EDC and wilderness. Sharpening in the wild isn't a concern, but I was curious about the other appealing properties of s30v, say, in comparison to 154cm.

L

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I don't know if this is the right forum for this question. Let's see what kind of responses you get. If it's all technical rather than outdoor use, I'll move it to Knife Reviews & Testing.

Brittle is a relative term. Relative to other steels, is S30V more likely to deform on hard impact, or to chip? While we might get a good answer from a metallurgist on that, as a practical W&SS answer what we really need to know is ... will my specific knife blade chip in normal use.

THAT depends on heat treat, hardness, blade geometry, edge geometry, and how you use it, more than on the actual steel. You might want to know if the steel is high carbon or stainless or high-tech stainless. Both S30V and 154CM fall into the last category.

Comparing S30V to 154CM is like comparing granny smiths to macintosh apples. Same thing, different flavor! We just had a fun discussion on the Buck forum about custom shop 110's in those two steels: which would we choose? I went for 154CM for no discernible reason. It just didn't matter to me, since both would outperform my needs for the knife.

 

[Grampa]

I have a couple of Benchmades of s30v, and have had no problems with it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

On the other hand, I would be very slow to buy a large chopper made with s30v or any stainless steel.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Agreed. He's looking at it for a folder, as I was with the 110. Carbon steel is more appropriate for a large fixed blade, especially a chopper.

One of the requirements for a folder may be that it sits in a pocket, close to the body, and can rust if not carefully cleaned even without being used. So stainless is advantageous even before considering actual use. Since the latest high-tech stainless can take some impact and will take and hold a good edge, they work fine in a pocket knife or folder.

 

[These_Nutz]

Dont you just hate the fruit comparisons.
It cant be that bad or Hossom etc wouldnt use it in his large choppers its the same price for one in cpmS30v as cpm3V.
Ive heard all the storys about chipping although ive yet to see any major ones its not a brittle steel IMO.

 

[mete]

The chipping comments may have had some meaning when S30V first came out ,before they worked out the proper HT.At this point it's well established and doesn't have a chipping problem. My EDC has been a Sebenza and I can only praise it.S30V is noticeably more wear resistant than 154CM due to it's high vanadium content but 154CM is no slouch in that department !! The newer CPM 154 has become popular with custom makers but I don't know if any factory uses it yet.
Both are easily sharpened with diamond.Both make superior field knives .

 

[pitdog]

I haven't heard of many problems with S30V on smaller blades in fact Becker even used it on their big BK7 Extreme and I havn't heard anyone mention those chipping either but maybe they are all sat in safes ?

 

[datsgor]

My Spydie Native chipped. Granted, i was prying a nail out of my truck tire...but it broke the tip off never-the-less. As a cutting steel, I think it is great....just don't pry anything with it.

 

[peripatew]

My Spydie Native chipped. Granted, i was prying a nail out of my truck tire...but it broke the tip off never-the-less. As a cutting steel, I think it is great....just don't pry anything with it.

Do you have any other experiences with prying and other steels for comparison?

 

[These_Nutz]

My Spydie Native chipped. Granted, i was prying a nail out of my truck tire...but it broke the tip off never-the-less. As a cutting steel, I think it is great....just don't pry anything with it.

You could chip any steel doing that any steel.
Whats the obsesion with using knives as prybars.

 

[hlee]

We're knife nuts. If this were a prybar forum we would probably be talking about the best prybar to slice bread with. It is the nature of the beast.

I have a small chip in my s30v mini manix left from a friend that used it to dig a broadhead out of a tree stump. I think it is from contact with the broadhead, and not from the tree. Note to self: Remember to carry your SAK. It is small enought that it will sharpen out quickly, but the rest of the blade is so sharp that doing it now would only make me feel better, and would not appreciably enhance the useability of the blade.

 

[rifon2]

Also, Buckaholic posted that his S30V Buck Kalinga chipped (a small chip).

I'll try to find the post.

I have a few knives in S30V and it takes a real wicked edge.
But after all I've read & heard, I wouldn't be surprised if it chipped.

So I wouldn't feel comfortable with it for wilderness use.

My .02

 

[These_Nutz]

If your going to buy a knife to use as a prybar then its gotta be a Busse and if you cant afford that then Scrap Yard, Swamp Rat etc also Fehrman knifes are solid pieces of cpm3V.
Using steels like s30v arent up too the job of prying IMO unless its thick stock.
L6 is a good steel if your using it for prying it rusts and stains bad though.

 

[Big Mike]

Like I always say; heat treatment and edge geometry is just as important as metallurgy.

I think that many of us have encountered tales of chipping problems with S30V.

Not doubt some of the thin bladed folders that first appeared with this steel had some problem.

I think this has been a little blown out of proportion, and feel that most quality knife makers that use this steel have a good understanding of how to treat this fine grained steel to maximize its potential.

From my experience a properly supported and highly polished S30V edge is quite tough and abrasion resistant.

I only have one knife in this steel (a convex ground fixed blade that came out of Mike Stewarts shop), and have been very impressed by its performance.

 

[Ravaillac]

Crucible claims S30V to be generally as tough as 154CM see here:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS30Vv4b.pdf

They say it has better transverse toughness, probably because it is powder steel.

 

[BoxANT]

I have a S30V benchmade and got a small chip in it when i (by mistake) hit some hard metal with the tip of the blade. It was easy to remove via sharpener.

My experience with S30V is that it's a *great* material overall. If you use it for "normal knife tasks" it will serve you very well. But if you're going to be beating the crap out of your knife outdoors (or indoors), consider getting a carbon steel fixed blade.

On a side note, D2 (for folders) is really starting to grow on me. The composite blades that Kershaw are coming out with are awesome

 

[Sagittarius]

S 30V is awesome steel for a folder, especially, with the right heat treat. :thumbup:
I would have no other steel for a folding knife !


Sag.

 

[datsgor]

Do you have any other experiences with prying and other steels for comparison?

Yea, I have been prying stuff practically my whole life....I was a boy and a kid, so prying things just go hand in hand. From screwdrivers to wrecking bars...I rarely hand anything chip. Or break. The only two things, in recent memory, are with knives that I was doing things with them they were not designed to do. I.E. prying. S30V and a Damascus. I broke the tip off my S30V...does that make it brittle? I don't know, It doesn't really matter, I like it. I think it is a fine steel.

 

[datsgor]

You could chip any steel doing that any steel.
Whats the obsesion with using knives as prybars.

You can chip any steel doing that to any steel...thanks.
What's with the obsession with stating that you think people have an obsession with using knives as prybars?

 

[cybrok]

While in the subject:

How does S30V compares to 3V for a bushcraft blade?

EDIT: I think this will need a whole thread finally.