S30V Ritter Griptilian chipped

IMS, the Benchmade fixed blade that failed like that was a CSKII in 1095.
 
Wow that is quite the chip. I've heard of S30V being brittle but have never seen anything like that. It would be interesting to know what the HRC is.

More the reason to get a M4 Ritter. :)
 
As far as my experience has led me to believe, one S30V is not necessarily the same as another. Like other metals. I have noticed pretty significant differences in the qualities of my Delica 4's flexability and retention compared to my Mcusta. The Mcusta without a doubt holds a better edge but the blade is much more brittle. Both are VG-10 out of Seki City. My Lone Wolf T1 Harsey's S30V blade held up much better than any Benchmade's S30V knife I have ever owned.
 
Interesting thread guys, especially in regards to the steel. I think some further reading is required on the properties etc of S30V!

I have to agree with many of you; having this fault happen twice to the same user...I'd be looking to my own technique and suitabilty of the knife for the task(s) at hand.

I'd like to think the user is not too erudite to adapt his technique to one more mindful of his chosen task and 'sympathetic' to his tools.

It has been very easy to take the first post as pressumptious and premature in its condemnation of this knife and brand. Hopefully though, it'll give the parties involved some food for thought....it certainly has me.
 
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Seems like an odd thing to use a folding knife for.....

I recommend your friend get himself a Swiss Army One Hand Trekker.

It can be had for around $30 and it comes with a very fine saw among other useful tools.
 
I've used my Spyderco S30V Military and Para-Military extensively. I have cut really thick branches and carved wood with my Millie on numerous occasions; yet, I've never experienced any chipping. Actually, it almost seems that wood, especially the green kind, simply doesn't dull the knife whatsoever. Maybe it's just me. I also never go easy on my S30V knives..... O.o S30V was supposed to be a "supersteel" and that's how I treat it. If its so super, than some twisting shouldn't hurt it. Again, no chipping or anything like that. I also have BM Dejavoo in S30V, but don't use it as hard, no reason to "why".
 
Esav Benyamin said:
There is a significant difference between a small folding knife and a large fixed blade. As we blur the differences, with tough folders, we blur our understanding of what common sense suggests.
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Are you saying that hard-use folders should not be used hard? There are some really beefy folders that look to be designed for such hard use tasks that a fixed blade is traditionally used for.

SekiCity421 said:
Very true, do you have one? I like mine. Picked mine up for 120 before I owned my store.
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I had a Diablo. Kind of expensive but performance was among the best I've experienced for a time, before I started to play with super-steels.
 
cotdt said:
Are you saying that hard-use folders should not be used hard? There are some really beefy folders that look to be designed for such hard use tasks that a fixed blade is traditionally used for.
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Use common sense. Hard-use folders should be used for folder tasks, where they will perform reliably when lesser folders might not. Why would you expect a folder to substitute for a large fixed blade?

I have a few of the heavy hitters myself. They overlap in capability with smaller fixed blades. Pushing your gear beyond its designed capacity because you over-interpreted a "hard-use" designation is irresponsible.
 
I've seen a chip like that twice.

I whacked a deer leg bone with a custom in 154CM. My fault. The maker fixed it for me, N/C.

The other was a stock British MOD I was using to limb a Bois D'Arc.

That the custom chipped was not really a suprise, but the MOD is a honkin' big hunk of iron that should have been able to chop a car in half.

Things sometimes just happen. I'm certainly not going to let this incident put me off of the steel or the maker.
 
VA27 said:
I'm certainly not going to let this incident put me off of the steel or the maker.
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ditto

Even if it was examined and it was determined that hardness was within spec, and there were no voids, occlusions, or other issue that caused the faliure, it would be hard to make any conclusions when we are not sure really what was happening when it failed. I think these kind of posts are interesting, but especially second hand it is hard to figure out much from them.

Now it would be interesting to see results for a test that had a clamp attached uniformly on various model knife edges and then apply force until failure. Also could note whether failure was bending or chipping. Not sure it would be able to be related to cutting, but it would give some measure of edge strength against lateral forces (ie. akin to edge stability).
 
Esav,
"In building for hard use, the manufacturer should over-build, but the user should under-utilize. Don't push a tool to the very edge of its capability and it won't fail."

I couldn't agree more. I am starting to think that my friend shouldn't be let loose without over built tools, just in case!:D

On the subject of hard use folders...
If you had two blades of the same steel, same HT and same profile and thickness, one mounted as a fixed blade, and one mounted as a folder, shouldn't the only difference be in strength of the blade/handle join? Isn't that the limitation of hard use folders, that they fold? All the effort is put on beefing up the lock and pivot so that if you batton or pry with them you don't overload either of these weak points. The blade's ability to cut and resist lateral loads over the length of the cutting edge shouldn't be affected by how the handle is mounted. The pictured Ritter's lock is still rock solid, no play or anything.
 
C_Claycomb said:
If you had two blades of the same steel, same HT and same profile and thickness, one mounted as a fixed blade, and one mounted as a folder, shouldn't the only difference be in strength of the blade/handle join?
Click to expand...

I'd think that you'd actually want the lock/pivot to fail last-AFTER the blade. If the weakest point is that the knife folds, somebody is bound to find that out by cutting themselves pretty badly. If the blade gives, while there's still a chance of injury, it's got to be less than the blade folding!
 
I was just informed of this thread and would like to reiterate that Aeromedix and Benchmade stand behind Doug’s RSK-Mk1 knives with a lifetime warranty. We certainly find it odd that apparently this knife reportedly failed in the same manner as an earlier one and not under use we’d normally consider abuse. In any case, we would prefer to have had the knife back in its original damaged condition and either replaced it or refunded the customer’s money, since we cannot analyze a failure otherwise. They are rare enough that we are always curious to get to the bottom of it. The RSK Mk1 is a production knife, so occasionally things slip through even Benchmade’s generally superior quality process, but this is extremely odd. Clearly, Doug wouldn’t be putting his name on a knife that wasn’t up to the job he designed it for and clearly if we had many failures such as this, we’d not still be selling them. While designed as a slicer in accordance with Doug’s philosophy, it isn’t a sharpened pry bar, I know he, as well as many of our customers, certainly work them very hard and Doug has often explained how he abuses and tests them just to find out what they will take.

If any customer ever has a problem with one of Doug’s knives that we have sold, we hope you will contact us and allow Aeromedix and Benchmade to provide the first class customer service upon which Doug, Brent Blue and Les deAsis have built their businesses.

Eric
 
C_Claycomb said:
Thought this photo might be of interest.
RitterGripChip.jpg


This Benchmade / Ritter RSKMK1 belongs to a friend of mine. He does a great deal of wilderness travel all over the world and while he himself is not particularly hard on tools he is someone who really needs gear that is 100% reliable. Now you can take it any way you like, but the pictured knife is the replacement which he was sent after the first Ritter be had failed in exactly the same manner.

The first chipped out while he was trimming up a thumb thick sapling in Borneo. After that failure he didn't feel like taking the replacement anywhere that he might want to rely on it, so only used it while at home. This second blade chipped while carving the notch in a finger thick red cedar hand drill hearth board.

Neither cutting job was something that I would have considered outside the scope of a knife like this. In fact, I wouldn't have thought twice about using my own RSKMK1 for either job if it was the knife I had to hand.

Maybe my friend has a peculiar way of using a knife which puts undue stress on this part of the blade, maybe he has just been really unlucky and had two successive blades that slipped through quality control, or maybe the steel/cross section combination isn't quite up to the job? :confused: Maybe a combination.

Anyone else had anything like this happen with a Ritter, or any other S30V Benchmades?

I have ground the chip out now and maybe the thickened up edge will fix it for the future. My friend said he didn't want another replacement and isn't even all that bothered if he doesn't get this one back. I can kinda see where he is coming from. Personally I don't plan on leaving my own Ritter at home when I go on expeditions, but I reckon it is going to take a while for me to look at that little skinny edge again without a few misgivings. :(
Click to expand...

Vivi said:
H1 is pretty tough. Then again it's not stainless...it's stain proof.

1zppjqt.jpg


;)
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dang those are some deformed blades!
could it have been the HT on the BM. that is the only thing that comes to mind.
 
I am surprised at the size of the chip, but I am not surprised that a BM S30V Ritter Mk1 chipped. I have had 3, one of which was a warranty replacement from Benchmade, and they all chipped a lot. And chipped while doing simple knife tasks, like whittling hardwood (removing shavings, not prying) and cutting rubber. I decided I didn't want to keep sending a knife back and forth to Benchmade in hopes of getting one that would not chip, or would chip a lot less, so I sold my last one. I have other knifes, made from other "super steels" like 440V, D2, 154CM, 440C, and they sometimes chip, but nothing like those BM S30V blades did.
 
eric@aeromedix said:
I was just informed of this thread and would like to reiterate that Aeromedix and Benchmade stand behind Doug’s RSK-Mk1 knives with a lifetime warranty. We certainly find it odd that apparently this knife reportedly failed in the same manner as an earlier one and not under use we’d normally consider abuse. In any case, we would prefer to have had the knife back in its original damaged condition and either replaced it or refunded the customer’s money, since we cannot analyze a failure otherwise. They are rare enough that we are always curious to get to the bottom of it. The RSK Mk1 is a production knife, so occasionally things slip through even Benchmade’s generally superior quality process, but this is extremely odd. Clearly, Doug wouldn’t be putting his name on a knife that wasn’t up to the job he designed it for and clearly if we had many failures such as this, we’d not still be selling them. While designed as a slicer in accordance with Doug’s philosophy, it isn’t a sharpened pry bar, I know he, as well as many of our customers, certainly work them very hard and Doug has often explained how he abuses and tests them just to find out what they will take.

If any customer ever has a problem with one of Doug’s knives that we have sold, we hope you will contact us and allow Aeromedix and Benchmade to provide the first class customer service upon which Doug, Brent Blue and Les deAsis have built their businesses.

Eric
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Hey, Eric. Welcome to BF. I'm always impressed when company reps stand behind their products and provide good customer service. I've not had any trouble with my Ritter Grip, but It's nice to know that if I do aeromedix will be there to provide good, reasonable warranty service.
 
Vivi said:
H1 is pretty tough. Then again it's not stainless...it's stain proof.

1zppjqt.jpg


;)
Click to expand...

Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that this picture of a Pacific Salt blade is the result of Spyderco's in-house testing which shows that H1 bends instead of chipping.

I don't know how much force was required to bend the blade in that manner, but I can't imagine that any normal, or even abnormal, use would ever result in such damage to a user's knife.
 
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