s30V sharpening +er folders

S

scar1

Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
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2 parter: recently someone here talked about the difficulty in sharpering this type of steel without diamond hones. can anyone expand on this? are diamond hones absolutely nessasary to get a s30v blade shaving sharp? will regular white spyderco ceramics do?

next part: could someone share their experiences with sharpening their ER folders... i read there could be scratching isssues if certain steps aren't taken. thanks guys
 
Don't know about the Spydy whites, but have had no problem with ceramic hones on getting an edge on s30v. My Ark stones work as well.
 
I thought the whole point of s30v is that it was easier to sharpen then some of the other super steels, but still held an edge well.
 
With S30 the spyderco is fine (although if you don't keep the sharpness up a lot, you might want to also have the grey spyderco ceramic bars too. Even my S60 avalanche can (well, until I made it completely dull, now it's a pain in the ass. And I don't feel like buying the diamond rods, too much $$$)
Richard
 
Also the person who was having trouble with s30v may have only been trying to sharpen it on a Sharpmaker with the standard rods. If the edge angle is far from the angle pre-set by the Sharpmaker rods it might take a lot of work to re-profile the edge. This is where the diamond sleeves might be needed to speed things up. I have an EdgePro though and the aluminum oxide stones tear through metal faster than any diamond hones I've used. :) Once I have the edge where I want it I can touch it up on the Sharpmaker.
 
I use an Edge-Pro to sharpen my S30V knives. I used the 180 to make the bevel uniform. I use the finer stones to actually sharpen the knives when they begin to dull.

I actually find a S30V knife at 59 Rc easier to sharpen than a 154-CM knife at 57-59 Rc; and it sure as heck is easier to sharpen than my wife's knife made from CPM-440V!
 
From my own experience, S30V touches up and finishes just great using the Sharpmaker. However, I wouldn't want to try re-beveling S30V with anything that cuts less quickly than diamond. There's a thread, which ended up being hijacked, that I started maybe a month ago about my experience reprofiling a knife in S30V.
 
I got a Millie in S30V about a month ago and find it touches up very easily with the white rods, and the edge holds really well...very happy with the steel.
 
How about getting a Knick out of the blade? How difficult is that?
 
Scar1,

I scratched up the finish on my ER folder by not paying attention to the angle at which I was sharpening it using diamonds once and then in reprofiling with an EdgePro Apex. People who, unlike me, are careful can expect little to no chance of such cosmetic damage occurring.

Is the fine ceramic you're using a flat stone or the white hones in the Sharpmaker? I've found that, while some other methods are much faster, you can get an edge on S30V that will make you beem with pride using just the brown and white hones on a Sharpmaker. Step One from the instructions (20 alternating strokes on each side of the brown corners) has to be repeated a lot, but the rest of the going afterwards is quick and easy.

Tzvi,

It depends upon how deep the nick is and what you're using to sharpen. A sharpening block with 60 grit AO sandpaper will work quicker than the coarse hone on an EdgePro or the diamond hones on a Sharpmaker. That same sandpaper glued to the blade-blank of an EdgePro will work faster and neater. A belt-sander or grinder will seem like a fast-acting, benevolent deity in comparison.

Also, S30V is a hard-to-work steel, so it will take more effort compared to AUS-8A or 154CM/ATS-34 that is hardened in the 57-59 Rc range.
 
dsvirsky :

S30V touches up and finishes just great using the Sharpmaker. However, I wouldn't want to try re-beveling S30V with anything that cuts less quickly than diamond.
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This is true, but any non-junk steel will touch up and finish very quickly on the Sharpmaker. S30V has a low machinability compared to most cutlery steels and is thus slow to alter the bevel angle or remove damage.

WadeF :

I thought the whole point of s30v is that it was easier to sharpen then some of the other super steels, but still held an edge well.
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Yes, but there is a lot of hype in that truth. If compared to S90V then S30V is easily machined, however this is like saying "titanium is stronger than steel". It is true that some grades of titanium are stronger than some grades of steel but these are low grades of steel. Compared to cutlery steels in general Titanium is weaker, and S30V is much harder to machine (remove material from).

-Cliff
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Yes, but there is a lot of hype in that truth.[/B]
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When using just a Sharpmaker, I found S30V easier to resharpen than D2. I used to think it resharpened easier than 154CM, but it just touched up easier.

The hype about S30V resharpening faster may be just due to how quickly it touches up and how quickly it sometimes takes a micro-bevel. For touching up the edge, it's a ridiculously fast responder. I don't know of any makers claiming that S30V sharpens faster than other high-end stainless steels.
 
thombrogan :

When using just a Sharpmaker, I found S30V easier to resharpen than D2.
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D2 is one of the worst steels to machine, however for touchups even it should be easy for anything if applying a secondary micro-bevel. I have done edge retention trials when the sharpness was reduced down to less than 10% and could be brought back to optimal with a few passes on a rod.

Being able to be touched up quickly is more an issue of suitability of the steel to the knife and geometry. Can the steel resist being damaged (corrosion, dents, chips etc.), then sharpening should be a few passes. The edge geometry (angle/thickness) and curvature can also be significant. For example a S30V blade at 12 degrees per side will sharpen much faster on the Sharpmaker at 15 than a 52100 blade at 14 degrees per side.

I don't know of any makers claiming that S30V sharpens faster than other high-end stainless steels.
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It was hyped against S90V which is the worst steel for machining, without really saying just how biased a comparison was being made. Almost any steel would fare well in such a comparison. There was (and still is) a lot of hype about how the fine grain of S30V positively influences sharpening without mentioning the other large negative effects such as the vanadium carbides.

Of course there are makers who are clear about the problems, some have been quite clear that S30V is one of the more difficult steels to sharpen. Though this is usually quickly accompanied by just how tough it is which is again having it compared to something like S90V, against which anything would appear to be very tough. Just like standing against Butterbean most people would appear to be fairly skinny.

-Cliff
 
When I got my first S30V knife (a Strider AR), I worried about the same sharpening issues, and felt a diamond was a necessity. I called Ben Dale.

He told me that it wasn't necessary, and if I just had to try one, he recommended a 'fine' to a 'very fine' grit, and he sent one. However, he suggested that before I tried the diamond, I should give the 180 and the 220 a shot first.

He was right, the diamond was never needed, and it sits un-used in my Edge-Pro case.
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
There was (and still is) a lot of hype about how the fine grain of S30V positively influences sharpening without mentioning the other large negative effects such as the vanadium carbides.
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I've been uncritically accepting the hype. What's bad about vanadium carbides? Are they too big? Are they offset by the nitrides I'm told exist in S30V?

The Tourist,

No steel is immune to the charms of either the 100 or 120 grit coarse hones Ben sells. Of course, were you to hog off too large of a chunk (such as in my reprofiling project for my first 921 Switchback which is still ongoing), it would seem that nothing's being done, but the puddle of steel slurry would tell you otherwise.
 
They are the hardest carbides, and thus lower machinability. S90V and 10V have much more vanadium and are thus much more difficult to machine.

-Cliff
 
Thanks, Cliff. Despite lowering machineability, do vanadium carbides add any benefit to edge retention or non-ductile-related toughness?
 
Vanadium carbides are the dominant source of wear resistance, so much so that the wear resistance of vanadium steels is roughly proportional to the percentage of vanadium. High levels of any carbides have a negative effect on toughness as carbides are *very* brittle.

-Cliff
 
So all this being said would it be safe to say that excluding workability that s90v or 10v will hold a edge the best compared to other steels?
 
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