S30V vs. D2

70 RC or not there isn't much reason to find fault with a 60-61.5 RC D2 blade. I have a serious hunter friend that typically gets up to 6 or more deer cleaned up every year using one D2 fixed blade before he has to do any real sharpening to it. I heard him say one day that he sharpened it once a year. Many times it gets passed around the deer camp out there on the Little Mulberry River in Arkansas and used by several people over the time spent there. I don't see much reason for needing better than that in a working knife.

It isn't all about edge holding either because on the other side of the coin it is more about technique. I know other guys that no matter what you give them in the way of a knife they'll swear its crap and doesn't hold an edge because even after hunting all their life they still don't know that cutting down into hair instead of coming up under it after taking time to spread it out of the way so you are cutting more skin and less hair is going to be the difference between maintaining a great edge and losing it. Some don't seem to get that rolling a bloody carcass around in sand and grit and then cutting that along with the hair will dull even a 70 RC blade right quick.

But its always the knife's fault you know. :thumbdn:

STR
 
Im not faulting the knives or the steel. I was simply pointing out what i see as a rediculous obsesion with super high hardness and a "edge retenion above all else" mentality.

D2 at 60-61 RC makes for a great skinner, or other working knife of a dedicated slicing design. Anything higher is reaching into the realm of impracticality IMO.
 
mr.trooper said:
D2 at 60-61 RC makes for a great skinner, or other working knife of a dedicated slicing design. Anything higher is reaching into the realm of impracticality IMO.
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I don't understand this at all. If in your viewpoint D2 is much more of an advantage over say 420HC in that regard, why would you not be interested in another material which has that big a jump again?

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
D2 is one of the worst steels to take to a high polish because the carbides are *really* coarse and it has a very low grindability. It doesn't work overly well for that anyway and I prefer to leave it coarse.

-Cliff
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Cliff, I agree that coarse is the right word to describe my BM 806 in D2 condition. In cutting a piece of paper I have to draw the knife to really cut it, and I guess I can feel its toothy edges. What kind of material should I cut to unveil the character of this steel? Sorry... I'm a noob. Thx.

Frids
 
Really coarse steels will slice some materials well, most synthetic ropes for example, and some foods are very difficult to push cut, tomatoes for example.

-Cliff
 
I have never had problems sharpening D2 or S30V. S30V does take a finer edge, and seems to hold it a little longer. For most uses, I don't really notice much difference between the two. Overall, I prefer S30V though.
 
I don't own any D2 blades, but I've been EDCing a Ritter MiniGrip in S30V for about a year now.

I use it on a daily basis, nothing overly abusive, but I've stripped wire with it, cut some 24ga wire here and there, and used it for whittling, food prep, etc.

I've sharpened it perhaps three times, the last time maybe 6 months ago.

When I first got the knife, I was concerned because it didn't seem like it was holding an edge very well It would go from having an evil edge to merely sharp in short order. Could be my sharpening technique, could be something else. I don't know.

What I do know is that 6 months after it was last sharpened, it still has a pretty decently sharp edge on it. It looks like hell, but it still cuts quite well. The VG10 Delica I carried for 10 years before getting this RitterGrip would have been uselessly dull at this point.

So, at least this particular S30V blade doesn't keep a wicked sharp edge for very long, but it sure keeps a utility edge forever.

Sure, just an anecdote, but there you go.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
I don't understand this at all. If in your viewpoint D2 is much more of an advantage over say 420HC in that regard, why would you not be interested in another material which has that big a jump again?

-Cliff
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Im not sure i understand you what your saying. Are you refering to S30V? I have a few knives in that, and i dont have a problem with it. I was responding to the post above mine.
 
mr.trooper said:
Anything higher is reaching into the realm of impracticality IMO.
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I think he was referring to this. I like pushing the envelope, whether it is practical or not is certainly a point of discussion at times...

One thing that I think many people, myself included, tend to forget is that even if we find a new "super" steel, the other "best" steel isn't automatically obsolete or junk. It's still just as good as it ever was, whether D2 or 52100 or whatever.
 
I have always loved D2. Steels come and go but it seems D2 sticks around. And they seem to compare all these others to D2...just my two cents
 
sodak said:
I think he was referring to this. I like pushing the envelope, whether it is practical or not is certainly a point of discussion at times...

One thing that I think many people, myself included, tend to forget is that even if we find a new "super" steel, the other "best" steel isn't automatically obsolete or junk. It's still just as good as it ever was, whether D2 or 52100 or whatever.
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It is true that higher hardness ratings do have their advantages. It just hapens that sharpening is not one of them, and the ability to sharpen my knife is important to me.
 
mr.trooper said:
It is true that higher hardness ratings do have their advantages. It just hapens that sharpening is not one of them, and the ability to sharpen my knife is important to me.
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A high sharpness, in general makes a knife easier to sharpen. It will of course lowerer grindability, but if this is a concern then you have the wrong steel for the knife and/or grind.

-Cliff
 
I have not had any issues getting either of these steels sharp. My only real gripe on S30V is that several blades I've owned in it have had edge chipping issues. I have not had a lot of problems with my Spydercos in it or my Kershaws but BenchMade and Strider in S30V both chipped when cutting softer woods, and even a thick box once.

I can't say D2 has ever disappointed me. For that matter I have not seen that S30V really holds an edge better than D2. I'd be hard pressed to see a big difference at all there if any. Both seem to do quite well. I haven't really seen rust on D2 at all and have even bead blasted it a time or two on my custom folders I made out of it with no issues of pitting or corrosion starting. S30V on the other hand showed some rusting on one Spyderco I bought used and that surprised me. It wiped right off but it was there nevertheless.

STR
 
Prairiedog said:
I'd like some opinions on S30V vs. D2 blades. Benchmade tells me S30V is excellent for edge retention, but the D2's still hold their edge better. However, the D2's can be difficult to sharpen because they are so hard. They recommend sending them back to the factory for free sharpening (a good dea, but still an expense for shipping and an inconvenience). I'm ready to break down and get a good carry knife and I want it to stay SHARP!!!
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This is common myth on my opinion - I did not see so far steel which is hard to sharpen and reprofile using diamond sharpeners. If you willing to but premium knife you should also consider buying sharpener. After all even with CPM S30V you still need to sharpen it.

My piont is that do not listen to things like hard to sharpen or reprofile - I did not see this das a real issue with modern sharpening tools.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
STR said:
For that matter I have not seen that S30V really holds an edge better than D2.
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Both of these are fairly hard, fairly high wear and fairly coarse steels. You would need fairly similar geometries and fairly controlled cutting to tell them apart and even then what you would see is most likely who did the better heat treating job.

-Cliff
 
Prairiedog said:
I'd like some opinions on S30V vs. D2 blades. Benchmade tells me S30V is excellent for edge retention, but the D2's still hold their edge better. However, the D2's can be difficult to sharpen because they are so hard. They recommend sending them back to the factory for free sharpening (a good dea, but still an expense for shipping and an inconvenience). I'm ready to break down and get a good carry knife and I want it to stay SHARP!!!
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I support Nozh2002. Get a good sharpening equipment and learn to sharpen. It doesn´t have to cost that much. Just look for some quality stones and you are fine.

Ease of sharpening does not solely depend on hardness.

Both steel grades arn´t made to hold a razor edge but to keep a "working edge" in other words, a coarser edge, for long.
 
I have a problem with the coarse working vs. razor edge terminology. I understand of course what is meant but in general I think it serves to misinform anyone who isn't that much into steels. This terminology suggests that D2 or S30V can not get shaving sharp, which is wrong, because most people correlate razor to shaving. It is true that I wouldn't want a straight razor in either D2 or S30V, but both steels can take an edge that easily shaves and will perform a number of sharpness feats/stunts like wittling hair just fine (well, actually I don't know this about D2 from personal experience, but I know that S30V can and I believe many people have reported similar things about Dozier knives), which is far sharper than what many people consider a "working edge".
 
Thanks, everyone. I finally made a decision and jumped in, but not before flip-flopping several times. I ordered a Benchmade 710 in D2. I still have my eye on a 940 for the future. By the way, I also ordered a Spyderco Sharpmaker. I've been doing a pretty good job of keeping my knives sharp with some Arkansas stones. But I thought I'd try something that sets the blade angle consistently.
 
Prairiedog said:
Thanks, everyone. I finally made a decision and jumped in, but not before flip-flopping several times. I ordered a Benchmade 710 in D2. I still have my eye on a 940 for the future. By the way, I also ordered a Spyderco Sharpmaker. I've been doing a pretty good job of keeping my knives sharp with some Arkansas stones. But I thought I'd try something that sets the blade angle consistently.
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I strongly suggest you to have Diamond products EzeLap Medium and ExtraFine. It is usually available in carpenters stores. With this you will not have any reprofiling problems. Medium Spyderco is actually very fine 30 microns, fine is 6 microns (in terms of working abrasive grid). So it is for final touch and something more coarse really nessesary. However for BM you most likely do not need to do any reprofiling or edge restoration...

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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