S30v

tiguy7 said:
I disagree that ZDP-189 is hard to sharpen. The 68 HRC that ZDP-189 can attain, through its crystal lattice structure, is much softer than that of the Vanadium and Niobium Carbides that are added to many powder steels. I sharpen my ZDP-189 on Shapton water stones (Al2O3). The super steels get the Diamond treatment to avoid Carbide pull out.
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ZDP-189 can be sharpened to a very fine edge, just like any steel. I'm just saying it takes longer than most steels in my experience. And it's not just me. You can watch videos of experienced sharpeners using their stones and sharpeners on ZDP-189, and it takes quite a while if it is dull. My experience has been similar.
 
Workingsloth777 said:
so recently I've been hearing a lot of people gripe about s30v. So much as to go so far and say they won't buy anymore knives in it. I personally have no problem with it, I think it's a great all around steel. Any thoughts?

Thx,
Workingsloth777
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More I read and see of Sv30, the less impressed with it I am, but also depends on what it's being used for an why. It does seem for less $ lots of good choices, and for just a little more $, lots of good choices.
 
rogatsby said:
I know S30V is not popular anymore. But it is my favorite steel. Why? Because it is one of the most perfectly balanced steels. Corrosion resistance, edge resistance, ease of sharpening, etc. Everything is balanced. People are spoiled these days. Who cares if it's not popular? If it works for you, it's good.

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If one values edge retention over toughness, then it's a good choice, which means good for folders and such, maybe not so good a choice for large fixed blades intended for hard use.
 
There are people who hate bmws, doesn't mean bmws are bad cars. You have to work with the steel and see if you like it for the application you intend to use it for.
 
WillB said:
More I read and see of Sv30, the less impressed with it I am, but also depends on what it's being used for an why. It does seem for less $ lots of good choices, and for just a little more $, lots of good choices.
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The more I read the less I am impressed with people's evaluations of blade steels. It really comes down to how people formulate their opinions and honestly many co-opt others opinions without any critical thinking. The S30V fanboys were singing their praises for the new anointed supersteel when it first came out. Now we have the snooty opinionated people thumbing their nose at the passe nature of S30V. I have used S30V for over a decade and have compared it to other steels. In actual use it is right up there with the latest kool aid supersteel M390, especially when comparing similar hardness blades below 60RC. Reading is good, but peer review exists for a reason. You should critically evaluate the things you read, this post included.
 
Jhansenak47 said:
The more I read the less I am impressed with people's evaluations of blade steels. It really comes down to how people formulate their opinions and honestly many co-opt others opinions without any critical thinking. The S30V fanboys were singing their praises for the new anointed supersteel when it first came out. Now we have the snooty opinionated people thumbing their nose at the passe nature of S30V. I have used S30V for over a decade and have compared it to other steels. In actual use it is right up there with the latest kool aid supersteel M390, especially when comparing similar hardness blades below 60RC. Reading is good, but peer review exists for a reason. You should critically evaluate the things you read, this post included.
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What peer review specifically are you referring to? I don't give a damn about latest greatest wonder steels and per other threads, started and commented on, think most better off with good carbon semi stainless choices in most cases. Peer reviewed material over subjective stuff is always preferred.
 
WillB said:
What peer review specifically are you referring to? I don't give a damn about latest greatest wonder steels and per other threads, started and commented on, think most better off with good carbon semi stainless choices in most cases. Peer reviewed material over subjective stuff is always preferred.
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Anybody can write something for you to read. Do you assume something is factual just because they read it? It isn't practical to double check everything you read which is why peer review was established. Academic journals use peer review to vet papers for factual accuracy and to determine if the interpretations of facts forms a reasonable opinion. Even experts in a field make bad interpretations.

The internet is filled with people presenting arguments and conclusions without any type of filter. So you have to realize that you are looking at raw unrefined opinion in many cases. Some people have excellent opinions that are very insightful, others just repeat whatever they heard on social media, forums, etc, and others are just plain wrong. The only peer review I am advocating in my post is you applying critical thinking to the things you read.
 
I believe that some of you hit that nail on the head with the “boredom” aspect. As collectors and enthusiasts, we like aqusitions to feel “special”. For me, I would be happier with a lesser steel, maybe 14c28n that would offer more bang for the buck. There are many knive that I am interested in from a design standpoint, but at the $150-$200 range, I just can’t pull the trigger.
 
Jhansenak47 said:
Anybody can write something for you to read. Do you assume something is factual just because they read it? It isn't practical to double check everything you read which is why peer review was established. Academic journals use peer review to vet papers for factual accuracy and to determine if the interpretations of facts forms a reasonable opinion. Even experts in a field make bad interpretations.

The internet is filled with people presenting arguments and conclusions without any type of filter. So you have to realize that you are looking at raw unrefined opinion in many cases. Some people have excellent opinions that are very insightful, others just repeat whatever they heard on social media, forums, etc, and others are just plain wrong. The only peer review I am advocating in my post is you applying critical thinking to the things you read.
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I have been published in peer reviewed journals a handful of times, and been a referee for a peer reviewed journal, so spare me the lecture on the nature of peer review. So basically you recommended peer review source to view, and offered nadda. I'm not repeating what I have read, have applied critical thinking to it, but have seen enough from various sources to conclude what I did, it's good steel for some uses, but I tend to think bang for the $, it's not all that and a bag of chips. Sorry you don't like it, and I don't claim SME status on the topic by any means, but you didn't add anything to this thread to help either.
 
I just got a ZT 303 in S30V. I expect it behave just as well as the 350 in S30V I have been beating on for the last couple of years. The 303 probably costs more than what some of you would want to spend on a dinosaur super steel. I didnt buy it for the steel used. I just wanted a big ol' chunky monster folder that they don't make anymore.

I'm happy with it.
 
Seems to take a toothy edge and hold it well. 35VN sharpens better. Seems they perform how they're designed. It will be a hoot to read a thread like this in 25 years when even S90v or seems like a dinosaur.
 
it's really important to remember context, and relative performances when thinking of steels. D2 has been a 'great' almost 'grail' like knife steel since Dozier started heat treating it well... https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/all-about-d2-steel-knives/

s30v is better in every way over d2; more than double the wear resistance and nearly double the toughness, and since it's pm, it's even tougher in the transverse direction - so it is not 'weak' in any way

but, it's still important to remember that 'chippyness' in s30v has valid roots in history, (often, I think, due to early poor heat treats)

but still, it's not as tough as aeb-l (13c26), and not as tough as 420hc (buck / case), and not as tough as sandvik 12c27 (opinel / mora) - it gives up that toughness for top notch wear resistance
 
rswanson said:
Seems to take a toothy edge and hold it well. 35VN sharpens better. Seems they perform how they're designed. It will be a hoot to read a thread like this in 25 years when even S90v or seems like a dinosaur.
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M1290, S1100V...
 
WillB said:
I have been published in peer reviewed journals a handful of times, and been a referee for a peer reviewed journal, so spare me the lecture on the nature of peer review. So basically you recommended peer review source to view, and offered nadda. I'm not repeating what I have read, have applied critical thinking to it, but have seen enough from various sources to conclude what I did, it's good steel for some uses, but I tend to think bang for the $, it's not all that and a bag of chips. Sorry you don't like it, and I don't claim SME status on the topic by any means, but you didn't add anything to this thread to help either.
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I didn't offer a peer reviewed source. I was making the point that internet opinions on S30V are not generally peer reviewed and should be taken with a grain of salt. I clarified my original post in response to your question. It seems your feathers are ruffled and I honestly think you are reading more into what I said than is actually there. I like S30V and don't mind your opinion one way or another. BTW I never made any claim that you lacked expertise or knowledge and didn't add anything to the thread. Though I must thank you as it amusing to see people get in a tizzy for a non-existent, or at a minimum unintentional, tort. Have a wonderful day.
 
My experience with s30v has been that factory edges tend to roll and get small chips fairly easily. Once I’ve sharpened it’s much better...however that’s with stones, when I’ve tried on the worksharp I get a chippy easy to roll edge again, (and I’m very careful to not heat up the edge). Don’t know exactly why but I’m guessing for whatever reason, s30v it very susceptible to heat effecting the edge, even small amounts.
I always am curious about factory edges and use them till dull or excessive chips or rolling requires sharpening to satisfy that curiosity. I’ve experienced the same thing on s30v from dif companies on a few different knives. They’ve all been just fine after sharpening. I have no concerns about buying a knife in s30v other than knowing it’ll take a bit more work than some other steels the first time I put a good edge on it.
 
stabman said:
Some people don't like it, but whatever.
Some people also think the world is flat...I don't agree with them either. ;)
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LOL! Yes, there are a myriad of "beliefs" out there to which I don't subscribe. I can't beat 'em, but won't join 'em.

And people's beliefs about certain steels are sometimes just that... beliefs. Science and experience be damned.

The world is flat... that's rich alright. I won't begrudge folks' belief in such, but I'm not joining the club neither.

And it's just as OK if folks don't want to join me in wearing the "S30V = Good" T-shirts.
 
AKnife said:
It's the "cool to hate" phenomenon.

There are better premium steels out there now and people become steel hipsters/snobs.

Most people will never experience the difference between S30V to 20CV. But 20CV is the new kid so everyone wants to be friends w/ it.
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It’s fairly easy to distinguish the differences when you sharpen them. S30V is best to have a toothy edge, while 20CV and it’s cousins can be produce a “better” more refined edge with similar efforts. That’s why I’d rather have S35VN over S30V, or better still, 20CV/M390/204p. It’s not so much that it’s popular, it’s that they are a legitimatly better steels in most respects. If I was offered the same knife for the same price, one using S30V and the other 20CV, I’d choose the latter 10 out of 10 times.

It’s all personal preference. Some people don’t care to have anything better than 1095, others want something extreme like 10V or Maxamet. I’m willing to give most steels a chance, and doing so realized what I want out of my knives. S30V isn’t that. “Steel hipsters/snobs” are mostly just people that realize what they want. It’s truly not hard to differentiate between S30V and most steels out there. It’s pretty unique in it’s use, which is why I tend to believe it gets a lot of hate. It’s not a bad steel at all, it holds an edge better than most, but it’s edge is a toothy one.
 
^ Don't get me wrong, I love me some 20CV/M390/204P. I was just getting at the fact most people never actually use their blades enough to see the difference between those steels and S30V.

Personally, I strop my edc knives routinely enough that it really doesn't matter if it's 154, S30V, 20CV. What irks me is when you can buy knives w/ 20CV at or around the same price of other knives w/ S30V.
 
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