S30V ?

D

Dours

Joined
Feb 14, 2015
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I have several knives with S30V steel. Benchmade & Spyderco. I can get a shaving sharp edge on them but with just a few soft cuts the edge is gone. Knife still sharp but not shaving sharp. What steel would be a step up from S30V?
 
If you're looking at pure edge retention:
S30V -> M390/20CV -> S90V -> K390 -> S110V -> Maxamet

Thus is all subjective of course. Once you get up to 20CV, who knows. Heat treat and hardness also plays a big factor.

You lose that graceful paper glide, hair shaving, hair whittling sharp pretty quick, regardless of the steel. A good steel will keep that step-below sharpness for a good amount of time, plenty adequate for cardboard, packages, food, stabby-stab, etc.

Out of those, my preferred (after years of use) is hands down K390. No chipping, good amount of toughness, and pretty much only needs the occasional strop. Good luck!
 
Yes, S35vn, s45vn and 20cv. The finer grain structure and carbides in these steel seem to take and keep a finer edge where s30v has larger size carbide. After using and several sharpening s30v has gotten better. I think it’s because I am into fresh metal away from the factory ground edge. Factory power grinding seems to effect the carbide along the apex maybe heat and or tear out.
 
Dergyll said:
If you're looking at pure edge retention:
S30V -> M390/20CV -> S90V -> K390 -> S110V -> Maxamet

Thus is all subjective of course. Once you get up to 20CV, who knows. Heat treat and hardness also plays a big factor.

You lose that graceful paper glide, hair shaving, hair whittling sharp pretty quick, regardless of the steel. A good steel will keep that step-below sharpness for a good amount of time, plenty adequate for cardboard, packages, food, stabby-stab, etc.

Out of those, my preferred (after years of use) is hands down K390. No chipping, good amount of toughness, and pretty much only needs the occasional strop. Good luck!
Click to expand...
How easily does K390 rust?
 
If you want actual "shaving sharp" then you want the type of steel used for razor blades. That would be a steel without carbides. 13C26 taken to a high hardness would be the thing. Such an alloy will retain it's shaving edge longer, but would then dull much faster than a carbide-containing alloy.

Steels with carbides are like concrete, got chunks of rock in it.
Steels without carbides are like cement, just fine particles.

When you start cutting with a carbide containing alloy, the carbides (bits of ceramic) begin to protrude from the surface as the steel is worn away around it. That means you lose your "shaving edge" relatively quickly. But once exposed, the carbides wear MUCH longer than steel. That means that the somewhat lesser edge is retained much longer.

Steels without carbides do not have chunks. So the fine edge lasts longer. But then there are no hard particles to resist wear and the edge degrades faster.
 
I've found S30V to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. My Mini-Rukus in S30V takes a very fine edge (as do my Benchmade 710 and Cabela's Grippie in D2). My Spyderco PM2 in S30V cuts very well when sharpened on a DMT fine (600 grit); it cuts less well when taken to 1200 grit (extra fine). S110VN can take a very fine edge but seems to cut best when sharpened on a DMT Dia-Sharp Extra Coarse and finished with a few very light strokes on a DMT extra fine.
 
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Dours said:
I have several knives with S30V steel. Benchmade & Spyderco. I can get a shaving sharp edge on them but with just a few soft cuts the edge is gone. Knife still sharp but not shaving sharp. What steel would be a step up from S30V?
Click to expand...
knarfeng said:
If you want actual "shaving sharp" then you want the type of steel used for razor blades. That would be a steel without carbides. 13C26 taken to a high hardness would be the thing. Such an alloy will retain it's shaving edge longer, but would then dull much faster than a carbide-containing alloy.

Steels with carbides are like concrete, got chunks of rock in it.
Steels without carbides are like cement, just fine particles.

When you start cutting with a carbide containing alloy, the carbides (bits of ceramic) begin to protrude from the surface as the steel is worn away around it. That means you lose your "shaving edge" relatively quickly. But once exposed, the carbides wear MUCH longer than steel. That means that the somewhat lesser edge is retained much longer.

Steels without carbides do not have chunks. So the fine edge lasts longer. But then there are no hard particles to resist wear and the edge degrades faster.
Click to expand...
knarfeng reply spot on, and well stated.

I would add, Geometry Based On Application (example: razor blade geometry based on ... shaving, etc. etc.)
 
knarfeng said:
If you want actual "shaving sharp" then you want the type of steel used for razor blades. That would be a steel without carbides. 13C26 taken to a high hardness would be the thing. Such an alloy will retain it's shaving edge longer, but would then dull much faster than a carbide-containing alloy.

Steels with carbides are like concrete, got chunks of rock in it.
Steels without carbides are like cement, just fine particles.

When you start cutting with a carbide containing alloy, the carbides (bits of ceramic) begin to protrude from the surface as the steel is worn away around it. That means you lose your "shaving edge" relatively quickly. But once exposed, the carbides wear MUCH longer than steel. That means that the somewhat lesser edge is retained much longer.

Steels without carbides do not have chunks. So the fine edge lasts longer. But then there are no hard particles to resist wear and the edge degrades faster.
Click to expand...
I have never ran across it explained this way and now I finally understand. Thanks Frank!
 
My Buck 110 with S30V seems to hold a working edge for quite a while.
I did thin behind the edge/reprofile/set the edge to 12~12.5 degrees per side (24~25 degrees inclusive, no micro bevel) using a guided rod sharpener.
I learned long ago that a "razor edge" is not as important as the working edge on a knife.
Regardless of the steel, the "razor edge" is worn away (no edge rolling, any wire edge after sharpening removed by stropping) rather quickly.

A "razor edge" isn't  needed for most tasks: peeling/field dressing/butchering a critter/foul or cleaning and filleting a fish or whittling, opening a bag of feed/dirt/concrete, scraping a decal or paint off a window/ removing the old glazing from a window to reseal or replace the glass, strip a wire, open a package/or mail, scrape offa gasket, cut a worn fan belt, heater/radiator hose, tire/tube valve stem, cut food, peel an apple, citris, or grape ... and so on, anyway.

As others have noted, S30V seems to like a coarser 400~600 grit edge moreso than a finer 1000 grit plus edge.
 
This sounds more like a sharpening issue rather than needing a better steel. What did you cut to remove the shaving sharp edge? How many cuts &/or how much material? I’m not an S30V fan but it should handle all that.
 
From my experience when I'm losing an edge too fast I didn't remove the burr between the next stones. But also what is your angle? I find 20 degrees preside or less keeps that really sharp agressive slicing blade. Even with steels with "better" edge retention, if you don't remove the burr or have the proper angle that that makes a world of difference. I actually loved my benchmade bugout. Just the one with the crappies scales. I got through some heavy heavy cardboard with that knife. Good 20 plus cuts. All I did was strop the knife and I could shave again. Sounds like whats occurring is you get a wicked wicked sharp delicate fine edge that is actually a burr. Then once you use it that very fine burr gets knocked off then your knife feels dull.

Side note, I have tried many other "better" edge retention steels. S45vn can be similar. Not 100%. S35vn is tougher but not better in edge retention. 20cv has better edge retention but is harder to sharpen, and if it's too thick of a blade then it dosent stay super razor sharp. I'm going to be testing s90v spyderco very soon. I find spyderco is probably one of the bests when it comes to heat treats and performance of steel. But with s30v benchmade does alot and they do a great job with it.
 
S30V is still a pretty good choice. While I might want something fancier in a new knife, S30V continues to meet my regular EDC needs with aplomb. Of course, I'm not a heavy user and my needs are easily covered by a steel like 14C28N. I just want better because. ;)

One thing to consider is who is making the knife. S35VN can be hit or miss depending on the company. While I've never had bad S35VN, I've had a lot of S35VN that doesn't live up to the expected potential. M390 is another one that rarely lives up to its potential. I trust Spyderco over a lot of other companies on heat treatment, especially on their American knives.

If you want a really nice EDC steel with a good balance of properties, look for S45VN or Elmax. Another thing to look out for is MagnaCut, which is slowly working its way into more knives.
 
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