S35VN vs. CPM20CV

I agree about use of extreme caution when basing a steel's quality strictly of an edge retention test. Across the gamut of performance items (outside of steel) 'the best' usually is the most well rounded in all potential assessments versus zeroing in on a single category - like edge retention. Market entrants typically like to call out a single spec whereas the market leader who has years of testing and budget to back it up and make improvements usually migrates to all around performance. It is much more difficult to be very good to excellent across 10+ parameters than being able to claim to be the best in a single parameter. I assume different blade grinds also could favor the makeup of one steel over another, never mind brand to brand. In summary I don't think there can be a straight forward answer.

Wowbagger said:
Please . . . and with all due respect :) :thumbsup: . . . we have to be careful with those tests.
Very careful.
If I have learned one thing from those lists (and I have learned many things from those tests) . . . that is that GEOMETRY (and heat treat) can make huge differences in what happens with a knife blade of a certain alloy while cutting rope.

For instance here is a swath of info FROM HIS SECOND LIST which is the one we should be paying attention to. The first list was more subjective opinion and based on work with earlier inconsistent sharpenings to a polished edge. The second list is much more objective and based on tests with easier to duplicate toothy 400 grit edges. In his words allowing the carbides to perform to their potential.
Note that the CPM-20CV is at the top of this SEGMENT from the full list . . . way above S35VN right . . . ? Then notice that the blade with 20CV is 62RC and .007" behind the edge.
way, way, way down the list near the bottom of this SEGENT from the full list is M390 at 60 RC and though it does not list it I can guarantee the thickness behind the edge on that Contego is on the order of .020" or more.

Some where between those two extremes with the same steel is S35VN and oh my gosh look . . . the geometry is in-between as well at .015" behind the edge. And the heat treat is arguably between as well at 61RC.

If that doesn't convince you look at the monstrous range of the tests for S30V ! ! !
All the way from a mere 300 cuts with S30V in a Military - 60 RC to . . .
620 cuts with S30V in a Michael Raymond Estrella Custom - 60.5 - 61 RC - .006" behind the edge.



I think his tests with ZDP-189 is just crazy talk o_O but we won't go there :)
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I have owned knives in both steels, and both get the job done. From all of the research I have done, S35VN is tougher and possibly easier to sharpen, but CPM20CV excels in the other areas.
 
Quiet said:
I would own a knife in either steel any day and not feel shortchanged, although I believe 20cv to be overall tougher, and would therefore command a price differential due to the higher tier steel. I mean, you can buy S35v knives for under a hundred dollars these days, which is both insane and fantastic. I am not aware of any 20cv knives where that is the case.
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I do believe that the 20cv steel must cost the makers more than s35v, based on the prices of knives with each steel. 20 cv ,like m390, seems to have a nice balance of high levels of edge retention, resistance to corrosion , and toughness without having the best in any of these categories. Great for a high quality folder.
And to the reason for the reply to your last sentence, my last acquisition was a great bargain with 20cv steel. To find this exclusive, Google Buck Maverick.
Sturdy blade. Good hollow ground for slicing. And Bos heat treatment. Wait until you see the price. I ve been carrying mine a few weeks and am very pleased.
 
whp said:
I do believe that the 20cv steel must cost the makers more than s35v, based on the prices of knives with each steel. 20 cv ,like m390, seems to have a nice balance of high levels of edge retention, resistance to corrosion , and toughness without having the best in any of these categories. Great for a high quality folder.
And to the reason for the reply to your last sentence, my last acquisition was a great bargain with 20cv steel. To find this exclusive, Google Buck Maverick.
Sturdy blade. Good hollow ground for slicing. And Bos heat treatment. Wait until you see the price. I ve been carrying mine a few weeks and am very pleased.
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I see that it's a special run of the Vantage. Interesting. That particular knife is not really to my taste anymore, but I'm glad that it exists. I had not had any idea. Insane price.
 
I can’t tell the difference in terms of ease of sharpening between 20cv, s30v, 35vn, and even 440c as done by bos ht protocols. I’ve never counted the number of passes, but to me they all feel roughly the same.
 
Yonose said:
I can’t tell the difference in terms of ease of sharpening between 20cv, s30v, 35vn, and even 440c as done by bos ht protocols. I’ve never counted the number of passes, but to me they all feel roughly the same.
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Touch up, sure. Very comparable.

I haven’t reset an edge in 20CV, yet. I imagine that would be where the difference is most felt.
 
I would think so, 20cv having significantly more carbon, chromium and vanadium(same as s30v but less than s35vn) that it would be the hardest one to resharpen of all. But I can’t feel the difference, except that ime the s30v seems to get more miniscule chipping at the edge from use.
 
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Quiet said:
It may be a case of wanting proven overall toughness. 20cv is awesome at edge holding, but how would it due beating a large chopping blade into some hard oak out at a campsite? We know how well 3v or even well done 1095 would do in a 9 inch+ blade. Not speaking for him, but that is how I see it. I would want a large chopping blade out of a really tough steel I can just beat on something without worrying about chipping the edge.
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I’ve seen a 20CV folder get baton’d through kiln dried hickory. That’s much harder than Oak...
 
Didn’t busse make 9” bladed knives from elmax—which another member stated above was pretty close to 20cv—once upon a time?
 
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Detroit Steel said:
So, just go a new Hinderer with the new steel. What's the difference, or is it just one was cheaper than the rest when buying raw materials?
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As a buyer of knives, my rule of law would be, if it is under 4.5 inch blade and you can get it in M390, 20CV or 204P do it. If it's between 4.5 and 7.5 get the S35VN. If it's between 7.5 and 13 get 3V. If it's between 13 and 24 get CruWear.

I am sure 20CV is more expensive to work as a manufacturer, over and above S35VN.
 
I do believe that most tests/expert opinions will place 20CV above S35, unequivocally, all day. However, I'm not going to research/cite anything for you, so take that for what's worth.

In my experience, 20CV is the superior steel. It offers the best corrosion resistance I have ever experienced save for rust proof steels such as H1, etc. I wouldn't hesitate to own either, and I do, however I do go out of my way to purchase M390/204P/20CV these days.
 
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