s35vn vs s30v

J

Ja Baudin

Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
64
Ok guys, I know this may be a sore subject. Ive already read all the previous posts which date 2012 and older, didn't see any newer than that in the advanced search. So is the jury out on s35vn? If HT to 60-61 HRC is it performing just as good if not better than s30v with the same HRC? Clarification: edge retention/wear resistance.

thanks
 
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I cant give you a big laundry list of reasons but I personally prefer 35vn. I like the edge it takes, seems finer and easier to get there..Thats pure opinion so take it for what its worth..Its "suppose" to be bit tougher but is easier to finish. Edge holding is pretty close to each other but if you heat treat the 35vn to 60-61 it really shines I think..
 
The niobium in S35VN "thats the N part" increases toughness, but the real benefit is how much it increases machinabilty. I dont know if you have ever tried to grind hardened S30V before, but it RIPS through belts. Its also a massive pain to sharpen. S35VN keeps the great edge retention, the great sharpness and stain resistance but makes the steel tougher and most of all easier to work.
 
Thanks guys!, i appreciate the input. I plan on ordering a 36" stick of it. Going to run several samples first with different HT and dial in the HRC. Then make some blades once i know i can hit 60-61. Got an outfit in NYC that does HRC testing, going to send the different HT'd samples to them for verification.
 
It would be a MUCH better idea to send your blades out for professional heat treatment. Peters, Buck and tru grit can simply do a better heat treat in their professional setting than you can at home.
 
Greenberg Woods said:
It would be a MUCH better idea to send your blades out for professional heat treatment. Peters, Buck and tru grit can simply do a better heat treat in their professional setting than you can at home.
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Greenberg, your probably right. However, I have an Evenheat kiln at home and want to see what I can achieve with a programmed HT and sub zero freeze. The samples being tested will be small (2"x2"x1/8th) no machining so not much time or effort will be wasted. If I'm satisfied with my results I'll move on to a blade, if all fails I can still send it out.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate the interest in this thread.
 
I get great results with s35vn with an eve heat and subzero. I don't do a lot of stainless, but s35vn comes out the exact same Rc# every time I use it. Very consistent.
 
Ja Baudin,

I have an Evenheat kiln at home and want to see what I can achieve with a programmed HT and sub zero freeze.
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More power to yah !

I was disappointed that my Cold Steel Lucky came with S35VN rather than the CTS-XHP that it was billed to have by the online vendor but I am thinking now that I like it more and more. The Lucky is supposed to be up in the 60 to 61 hardness but who knows, with out a test, what it really is. I haven't used or sharpened the knife; just put it away for my birthday next month. Come onnnnnnn March !

Silly the game I am playing with my self but I got such a good price on it I had to strike while the iron was hot . . . as it were. Then they sold out and the price when back up so I guess it was worth all this torment.

Maybe I will carry it tomorrow and then put it back in the box. Who would know ?
what difference would one day make ?
right ?
noooooo I won't do that
but I might
no
yes
no
yes
. . . .
 
Greenberg Woods said:
It would be a MUCH better idea to send your blades out for professional heat treatment. Peters, Buck and tru grit can simply do a better heat treat in their professional setting than you can at home.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree... with the proper equipment and knowledge, you can do heat treat far better than any commercial HT company.
 
shqxk said:
I have to disagree... with the proper equipment and knowledge, you can do heat treat far better than any commercial HT company.
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i'd tend to agree with this as well... with testing and "dialing in" the heat treat, i'd say you can get more out of steel than almost any commercial company as most of them are doing things in batches to achieve a certain HRC, as opposed to focusing solely on one or two pieces so it's harder to be as exact as one person with all his or her attention on the individual piece. It's like teaching... one teacher can pay more attention to 3 kids than they can to a class of 40. Don't get me wrong... peters, paul bos, tru-grit and rob for us canadians all do a fantastic job and better than most can for sure and are better than almost anything you will get off the shelves. That being said, with time and patience, playing with different times, temps soaks and tempers i would assume one could dial the HT to get a marginally better edge for the intended purpose of the knife. HRC 61 from one company may be a slightly tougher 61 from another depending on how it was achieved, and if toughness was the end goal then focusing on that with testing and evaluation of the blade would eventually yield a blade with the properties you're looking for. might only come down to a point on HRC for edge holding or a few more joules to break the blade in a charpy type test at the end of the day but if squeezing out the very best is the end goal then those minuscule details are what matters right... otherwise why bother at all?
 
Contact Peters and talk to them about what they can do !
The proper HT for S35VN includes Cryo quench [- 300 F] not just sub-zero [ - 100 F ! ] They are two different things !!
 
mete said:
Contact Peters and talk to them about what they can do !
The proper HT for S35VN includes Cryo quench [- 300 F] not just sub-zero [ - 100 F ! ] They are two different things !!
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I dont think so, Crusible's data sheet on their HT and sub freeze is -112f. Thats dry ice territory. And thats data from the maker. If i can do 1950f for 30min then plat quench and sub freeze at -112 with a temper at400x2 and get 60.5 hrc like their data says. Im going to try.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\dsS35VNrev12010.pdf

Check it out

What im thinking is 2000 for 15 min, plate quench, then -112. 350 temper x2, according to graft should be at 62 HRC.

Why not try?
 
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There's a thread on here a while back where I explained what the Crucible metallurgist told me during a lengthy phone call I had placed to him regarding S35VN and the heat treat. He stated that dry ice/denatured alcohol was sufficient and LN was both unnecessary and of no benefit. I realize that does not go over well with a lot of knife makers but I trust what he said as he works for Crucible and is their metallurgist.
 
Ja Baudin said:
I dont think so, Crusible's data sheet on their HT and sub freeze is -112f. Thats dry ice territory. And thats data from the maker. If i can do 1950f for 30min then plat quench and sub freeze at -112 with a temper at400x2 and get 60.5 hrc like their data says. Im going to try.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\dsS35VNrev12010.pdf

Check it out

What im thinking is 2000 for 15 min, plate quench, then -112. 350 temper x2, according to graft should be at 62 HRC.

Why not try?
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Subzero will put the steel to it Martensite finish point which will convert any retain austenite to fresh martensite.

Cryo does do the same but in additional it also rearrange some space in the matrix and allow ETA carbide to precipitation at tempering.
The ETA carbide are very fine and hard, some believe that it increase "cohesion" of the steel which mean it might aid on wear resistance, strength and toughness.
 
Lo/Rez, shame on that metallurgist !
As shqxk says cryo forms eta carbides. This precipitation of eta carbides is a typical strengthening mechanism in metals !! If eta forms you are strengthening the metal by definition !!
There has been much misunderstanding about cryo but there shouldn't be . Makers here , as far as hardness, find an increase of 1-2 HRc !
Electron microscopes now have fantastic capabilities . There is a wionderful video of a dislocation moving through the metal and it's inter-reaction with precipitates. Those precipitates do change things.

There are now many excellent explainations of things like preciptation hardening , especially from college metallurgy courses on the internet .Check 'dislocation precipitate inter-reactions' Here's one example

bama.ua.edu/~mweaver/courses/MechBeh/N20.pdf
 
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mete said:
Lo/Rez, shame on that metallurgist !
As shqxk says cryo forms eta carbides. This precipitation of eta carbides is a typical strengthening mechanism in metals !! If eta forms you are strengthening the metal by definition !!
There has been much misunderstanding about cryo but there shouldn't be . Makers here , as far as hardness, find an increase of 1-2 HRc !
Electron microscopes now have fantastic capabilities . There is a wionderful video of a dislocation moving through the metal and it's inter-reaction with precipitates. Those precipitates do change things.
Click to expand...



Thanks for all the replys and interest in this topic.

Would the difference between liquid nitrogen and dry ice really be noticeable??

Ja
 
Mete, Im not trying to argue with you over cryo at all because we use it too but we also got the hardness increase with sub zero ..I know that sub zero has nothing to do with eta carbides but the sub zero does take care of the RA and raise hardness. In the right steels anyway like aeb-l, 3v and s35vn etc..I know it would not work on stuff like Elamx, m390 and the like..
 
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