S5 batch

JTknives

JTknives

Blade Heat Treating www.jarodtodd.com
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
8,647
I’m looking for a handful of brave men and women to joint me in this quest. Im in talks with niagara about getting some S5 sheet and doing a small run. There is no set templates or patterns, we will cut your design. I have a customer that’s interested in a handful of blades but I wanted to ask you guys so I could gauge interest. Thickness would be in the .187-.200 range but leaning towards the .1875 stock. My original source told me I would have to buy an entire melt at 20tons. As much as I would love to own that much steel I don’t think the wife would let that fly lol. This is not a set in stone batch run, just in discussion right now. We are full steam ahead with the tomahawks right now but would like something simmering on the back burner. This is not a “I want 5 blades” as that’s inappropriate for this area. This is a general question to gauge material and if it’s worth the effort to proceed. If or when we move forward I will post an official thread and an item on my website.

Thanks guys - JT
 
The tomahawk batch tapped me out for a while, so I'm out. But I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
 
Let me see what I could dig up. My customer stated that .187 was the thinnest he would go.
 
Well thy do have a small sheet (20”x24”) that’s .250/.275. I don’t know what fright would be to me right now but as it sits I would guess all said and done blank cost would be sitting around $2.0-$2.5 per square inch. The material is a bit more expensive then I though. This would be one reason it’s not as commonly seen.
 
One thing we all need to ask ourselves when considering a special steel is, "Is it really that much better for the task we want than a steel at 1/4 the cost?"
After all, we aren't making industrial shears and making thousands of cuts a day with our knives and weapons. I regularly point out that for a field use knife, three to ten cuts is probably the most use it will get before returning home where the edge can be touched up if needed. For these type blades, 1084 is just as good as S90V.
 
I tried S5 back in 2011. I got the steel from Niagara. I failed with the heat treat. I had a problem finding decent HT data. Thinking back on it now, the problem was I didn't have a fast quench oil like Parks 50. I used Parks AAA. I also didn't use a high enough austenitizing temp which caused the steel to not harden. S5 would definitely make a tough blade but the steel can be expensive and tough to find in various sizes. I still prefer to use S7 being that it is easier to HT as an air hardened steel or CPM 1V which if you want a higher rc then S7 can be hardened to 60/61rc. Z Tuff is another steel that's tough as hell at a higher hardness. Look forward to seeing how S5 works out for you guys.
 
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Looks like with shipping it would be right at $1.88 per square inch to you guys. Shipping was cheeper then I thought. Final price could be a hair different after all is said and done but that number should be close. That’s really not that bad compared to other non speciality steels I use.
 
Has anyone ever tried forging it? I found this on a data sheet:

"Heating for forging must be done slowly and uniformly. Heat through at 1800 - 1950°F, but avoid prolonged soaking, and reheat as often as necessary, stopping work when the temperature drops below 1600°F. After forging cool slowly in lime, mica, dry ashes or furnace. S-5 should always be annealed after forging."

Sounds doable.
 
JTknives said:
Looks like with shipping it would be right at $1.88 per square inch to you guys. Shipping was cheeper then I thought. Final price could be a hair different after all is said and done but that number should be close. That’s really not that bad compared to other non speciality steels I use.
Click to expand...
That's $1.88/in for .250 or for .188?

If for .250 that makes it basically the same price as 3V. If for .188, about 25% more than 3V.

Just for comparison's sake since it's not in this thread. From Crucible:

3V @ 58 RC: Charpy C Notch - 85 ft lbs
S5 @ 58-60 RC: Charpy C Notch - 138 ft lbs
S7 @ 57 RC: Charpy C Notch - 124 ft lbs

3V @ 60 RC: Charpy C Notch - 70 ft lbs
S5 @ 60 RC: Charpy C Notch - 49 ft lbs
S7 @ 59 RC: Charpy C Notch - 70 ft lbs
 
kuraki said:
That's $1.88/in for .250 or for .188?

If for .250 that makes it basically the same price as 3V. If for .188, about 25% more than 3V.

Just for comparison's sake since it's not in this thread. From Crucible:

3V @ 58 RC: Charpy C Notch - 85 ft lbs
S5 @ 58-60 RC: Charpy C Notch - 138 ft lbs
S7 @ 57 RC: Charpy C Notch - 124 ft lbs

3V @ 60 RC: Charpy C Notch - 70 ft lbs
S5 @ 60 RC: Charpy C Notch - 49 ft lbs
S7 @ 59 RC: Charpy C Notch - 70 ft lbs
Click to expand...

that price is for the .250 and that’s with shipping and my mark up to cover the plasma cutting and waste.

so if I’m reading that right if we assume (yeah I know) that we try for say 59rc
S7= 70 ft/lbs
3V is 85 ft/lbs
S5 = 138 ft/lbs

I thought I had seed a graph that showed S5 at a higher toughness then S7 even when it’s at a higher hardness of 60-61rc.
 
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I neglected the addition for shipping.

That's not unreasonable pricing at all. The only reason I'm interested in S5 is for swords though. So I'll want 36" or better. Anything else I'll stick with 3V.
 
JTknives said:
that price is for the .250 and that’s with shipping and my mark up to cover the plasma cutting and waste.

so if I’m reading that right if we assume (yeah I know) that we try for say 59rc
S7= 70 ft/lbs
3V is 85 ft/lbs
S5 = 138 ft/lbs

I thought I had seed a graph that showed S5 at a higher toughness then S7 even when it’s at a higher hardness of 60-61rc.
Click to expand...

Most charts are going to say S7 is max hardness of 59. You can get 60, but it requires such a low temper I think the toughness drops off exponentially as described in Larrin's latest blog.

For me, if I want 60+ RC I'll stick to 3V and Zwear and I'm really just looking for a super tough sword steel at <60 RC that I can heat treat with my equipment.

Right now 3V swords I have to outsource.
 
whoops, I think I just inadvertently came in here and drop the turd in the middle of JT's thread. I sincerely apologize JT.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
One thing we all need to ask ourselves when considering a special steel is, "Is it really that much better for the task we want than a steel at 1/4 the cost?"
After all, we aren't making industrial shears and making thousands of cuts a day with our knives and weapons. I regularly point out that for a field use knife, three to ten cuts is probably the most use it will get before returning home where the edge can be touched up if needed. For these type blades, 1084 is just as good as S90V.
Click to expand...
Great point here. We used to substitute 6150 carbon steel directly when we couldn't get S5. Worked seamlessly
 
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