SA and Auto re-legalized in MA?

M

MrSpiffdifilous

Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
37
Hey guys,

I work in a store that sells a lot of knives. I also deal with a lot of morons who think they know the knife laws better than I(a person who collects, carries, and sells knives in MA). So you can imagine my hesitation to believe them when they tell me that MA just passed a bill changing the legal status of SA and automatic knives to legal. I have been unable to find anything stating such a change has been made, however I've been told this by multiple people on multiple occasions. Has anyone here heard anything about this? Is there any truth to it?

I have little confidence that this could ever happen in MA. This state has a hair across its ass for knives and pretty much everything else considered to be a weapon. Hell we have three different licenses for guns; Two of which they can deny you simply because the police chief of your town doesn't think you have a good enough reason for wanting one.
 
I have not heard or read about a change in law. Also assisted should be ok as there is no separate release.
 
I don't know and am not going to take the time to research it, but here's what you do. Call the state police headquarters and ask whoever answers the phone. I'll guarantee they'll know.

(Note that individual municipalities like Boston can have laws that are much more strict than the state has.)
 
Samael said:
I don't know and am not going to take the time to research it, but here's what you do. Call the state police headquarters and ask whoever answers the phone. I'll guarantee they'll know.
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Eh, I wouldn't bet on it. More than half the cops in my state can't even articulate the details of our knife laws, and ours are relatively simple by comparison, and have not changed in 30+ years.

Now, what I think these fellas are talking about is H01349/S00761. These bills do a complete rewrite of the infamous Chapter 269, Section 10, Paragraph (b) of state law. This paragraph is the goto statute on knives for the state, and I dare say it's about time they rewrote. The grammar is awful! It's a 385 word run-on sentence. The new statute is much more logically laid out, with definitions.

Here's the current law:
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section10

And here are the two bills:
http://www.malegislature.gov/Bills/BillHtml/13213?generalCourtId=1
http://www.malegislature.gov/Bills/BillHtml/13198?generalCourtId=1

Of relevance to your question, the bills states:
“switchblade knife”, any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one half inches;
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Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or under his control in a vehicle, any dagger; any knife having a double-edged blade; any ballistic knife; any switchblade knife; any butterfly knife; any disguised knife; any undetectable knife; any blackjack; any billy club; any brass knuckles; any leaded gloves; any nunchaku; any throwing star; any electrical weapon; or any other knife having a blade length of greater than 3 ½ inches that is possessed during the commission of any felony or misdemeanor, or that is used or intended to be used in an assaultive or otherwise unlawful manner; shall be punished by up to 5 years in the state prison, or up to two and one half years in a jail or house of correction, or a fine of up to $1,000, or both
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Nothing in this section shall prohibit possession of the above weapons by (i.) a federal, state or municipal law enforcement officer, or member of a special reaction team in a state prison or designated special operations or tactical team in a county correctional facility, acting in the discharge of his or her official duties who has completed a training course approved by the secretary of public safety in the use of such a device or weapon; (ii.) military personnel who possess such weapons in question as part of their official duties; or (iii.) an authorized supplier of such devices or weapons if possession of the device or weapon is necessary to the supply or sale of the device or weapon within the scope of a legitimate sale or supply enterprise.
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It would seem, in my admittedly non-lawyer's interpretation of this statutory text, that this bill effectively changes the knife carry statute to being intent based rather than strict liability possession. That is, it seems as though you could carry almost any weapon you wish so long as it is not with criminal intentions or during the commission of a crime, including switchblades.

It also appears to legalize the sale of switchblades by authorized retailers (though it offers no details on how a retailer becomes authorized).

However, it does not appear this bill has passed yet. It appears to have been viewed favorably by the house and senate, but is currently being referred to the Joint Committee on the Judiciary. So these guys going on about "a new law that was passed" are jumping the gun.
 
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MrSpiffdifilous said:
Hey guys,

I work in a store that sells a lot of knives. I also deal with a lot of morons who think they know the knife laws better than I(a person who collects, carries, and sells knives in MA). So you can imagine my hesitation to believe them when they tell me that MA just passed a bill changing the legal status of SA and automatic knives to legal. I have been unable to find anything stating such a change has been made, however I've been told this by multiple people on multiple occasions. Has anyone here heard anything about this? Is there any truth to it?

I have little confidence that this could ever happen in MA. This state has a hair across its ass for knives and pretty much everything else considered to be a weapon. Hell we have three different licenses for guns; Two of which they can deny you simply because the police chief of your town doesn't think you have a good enough reason for wanting one.
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Spring-assisted (AO) knives have always been legal in MA. WalMart sells them. Automatic knives (switchblades) and double-edged knives (daggers, stilettos and dirks) are legal to keep at home, but not to carry (felony to carry in public). So you can buy one and bring it home to add to your collection, but you are a felon from the time you leave the store with it until you enter your home. Go figure! The B.S. "suitability" and "may issue" problems associated with the Class A and B LTCs is the reason why I never bothered with them, opting for a "shall issue" Class C FID instead. I bought my rifle and shotgun in NH for two good reasons: I didn't have to pay the MA sales tax and I only had to fill out the ATF yellow form. If you buy in MA, you have to fill out the state form as well. The less MA knows about what firearms I own, the better.
 
Just because a store sells them does not mean it is legal.
 
rycen said:
Just because a store sells them does not mean it is legal.
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True. It is worth mentioning that even under MA's current law, I see no prohibition on sale or ownership of switchblades or Spring-assisted knives. It's just impractical due to the aforementioned carry restriction.
 
I've been told by several police officers that they consider spring assisted to be the same as an automatic. Obviously most people on these forums would argue that point, myself included. But regardless of their legal status, the store I work for doesn't sell spring assisted or switchblades simply because of the liability. I'm always told by people that Dicks sporting goods, and Walmart and several other stores here in MA sell them, which to them means it's legal. Ugh.
 
I guess we need distinction b/t semi and fully automatic knives.

Beware the just b/c the new law would say this is only a crime if there is "Criminal intent" NY state has, from legal precedent I believe, established that merely carrying a dagger is sufficient proof of criminal intent to use it. :(. So...I wouldn't be fully confident unless the bill specifically prohibits charging somone for "criminal intent" unless another crime has actually been committed.
 
I am a MA resident and a knife collector. I have heard of no changes to the law about switchblades. I would bet everything I own that MA will not be changing that one anytime soon. I prefer a small fixed blade carried inside the waist band anyway. No clip showing, no mechanical thingies to fail when you need them.
 
Interesting reading...The NY part you mention is actually a part of the law (PL 265), and the law states that simple possession by any person ( In NY that means in public) is presumtive evidence of intent to use it illegally...
I hope the MA law changes in favor of knife carry, and lets hope the recent change in NH law that allows all knives of any type, will influence MA right next store....
 
The difference in deployment speed on your average switchblade vs. any of the more recent opening mechanisms (spring-assist, axis-lock, wave--heck even spydie-hole!) is so negligible as to be almost irrelevant. Not to mention a fixed blade is essentially always deployed.

I've never understood the stigma laws associated with the switchblade. It's like they are all based on 1950s James Dean movies.
 
mctrinket said:
I've never understood the stigma laws associated with the switchblade. It's like they are all based on 1950s James Dean movies.
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Most weapon laws are due to association, never any kind of hard science. For knives, my money's always been on bigotry. Switchblades are associated with Italians (hence the popular misnomer "stiletto") and gravity knives with Germans, both Axis powers, and notice how the ban occurred just a decade after WWII. Similar thing for butterfly knives, usually associated with Southeast Asians and Latinos. And all those bans on nunchuku and throwing stars across the US are directed at East Asians. If you think I'm being paranoid, note how guns are legal in all those states. Guns are popular with white folks, so they can't be bad, right?

You'd be surprised how many weapon restrictions are racist in origin. For example, the laws in Maryland around the carry of pistols originally only prohibited it for people who were black and native American. Then they just changed it to ban it for everyone, unless the State Police specifically granted you permission on a case by case basis. Oh and did I mention Race is a required field on that form, which is still in use today?
 
I've never managed to take a good pic of my stiletto. I guess she's gonna have to do in the meantime.:D

117719344_595e87dece.jpg
 
glistam said:
Most weapon laws are due to association, never any kind of hard science. For knives, my money's always been on bigotry. Switchblades are associated with Italians (hence the popular misnomer "stiletto") and gravity knives with Germans, both Axis powers, and notice how the ban occurred just a decade after WWII. Similar thing for butterfly knives, usually associated with Southeast Asians and Latinos. And all those bans on nunchuku and throwing stars across the US are directed at East Asians. If you think I'm being paranoid, note how guns are legal in all those states. Guns are popular with white folks, so they can't be bad, right?

You'd be surprised how many weapon restrictions are racist in origin. For example, the laws in Maryland around the carry of pistols originally only prohibited it for people who were black and native American. Then they just changed it to ban it for everyone, unless the State Police specifically granted you permission on a case by case basis. Oh and did I mention Race is a required field on that form, which is still in use today?
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It goes beyond that. A nightstick is associated with police, bow/arrow associated with Robin Hood, brass knuckles associated with loan-shark enforcers, Lugers with Nazi mentality, double-barrel exposed hammer shotguns (lupara) associated with the old-time Sicilian Mafia...it goes on and on. Nationalism, racism, folk lore... take your pick. Whoever used that particular weapon first or with the most notority will be the one forever associated with it.
 
Wait.. when did they add in the 3.5" part? I always thought MA only had restrictions on auto length (1.5")
 
Paul Z said:
Wait.. when did they add in the 3.5" part? I always thought MA only had restrictions on auto length (1.5")
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You are correct in that the current law only has the 1.5" restriction on autos. The 3.5" part is from the proposed bill that has not yet passed, and technically only applies if the knife is possessed during the commission of a crime.

No offense, but are people just ignoring my earlier post that explains everything?
 
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