SaberSmith brand any good?

Z

ZipTieNinja

Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Messages
83
I am going to have the chance to pick up a sword from them in the not too distant future, and would like to know if they are any good. Or I could order it now... but the trip there is half the fun... I love road trips! :D

They use "1095 Hardened Carbon Steel" for the blades, which I am sorry to say, is Greek to me... 1/4" thick, 25" long.

Here is the link to the sight, which is www.sabersmith.com.

Yes, these are the ones that had that picture of the guy smashing cinder blocks in half with his sword. I was at that place, and a friend saw it, and said the blade came out with very minor scratches. I was elsewhere during that one.... He also got a ninja sword from them, which he has yet to use, which is why I am here asking all of you. ;)

Anyone out there with first hand experiance with Sabersmiths?
 
I took some time to talk to the smith at the bladeshow in Atlanta last year. He seemed very nice and willing to talk about his product. As for the product themselves... well it depends on what you want. His product is aimed more at the fantasy bash around crowd. I have absolutely no doubt that he can in fact smash cinderblocks etc. without taking any significant damage to his swords. It must be pointed out that you can also smash a cinderblock with a crowbar without causing it any particular damage. You cannot however smash a accurate historical reproduction against a cinderblock without messing it up in my opinion. That's not to say these swords are crowbars, but in the weight and balance department they don't have a lot in common with a historical replica either. That's okay it's not the market he's aiming at. If they are the sword for you or not depends on you.
 
Thank you for the reply. I know that they are not accurate as far as the history goes, but like you said, its ok, thats is not the market he is trying to get. Or the one I am in... I am not looking for a reproduction of anything, I just want a real workhorse! ;) By the way, just how thick where the ancient samurai and ninjitsu swords?

If I get this sword, it will be carried everywhere, and used a lot! I also have to cut wood for heat right now, and it would be used on brush, and saplings to clear a place to cut. Also, their are plenty of places that I can not have a firearm in my vehicle, but a sword would be fine... Even camping in state parks... So it would be used for real work, as well as protection... And looks as well, which I think the simple design have a look all their own, that I like. But that part is 100% opinion. ;) Oh, I am speaking of the Ninja Sword. Or maybe the katana, but I think the ninja sword wolud suit me better considering the uses...

Oh yea... The Ninja Sword is the one my friend got, and not used yet.... ITs heavier than the cheaper ones I am used to, but the balance is perfect for me.

Anyone have one of their peaces, and use it?
 
The blade profile configuration of a katana or ninja sword is not good for chopping wood.

As for the blade material, 1095 is a basic carbon steel - same as the one used to make the famous Ka-Bar fighting knife. Overall, the knife is decent but is not too tough. And that is a 6" knife, for a 25" blade, the physics affecting the blade will make it a good slicer not chopper.

However, 1095 is a very inexpensive material, so it may fit your budget. Personally, I would suggest an AX.

Good sword steels would be the softer 10XX series, like 1084, 1050, etc. O1, A2 is also used frequently by custom makers. L6, and L7 are very popular for swords as it is the same steel used to form jackhammer tips.

Realize that good, sharp tough swords that you can beat the tar out of and use for all the activities you mentioned starts around $1000 and gets ridiculus from there.

Anything that costs less than that is suspect and probably just a display - non functioning piece. Additionally, the good carbon steels are all prone to rusting so, if you do plop down the cash for a good sword, be prepared to clean and oil the blade regularly.

Stainless steels don't make good swords as they will either be too brittle or so soft that they do not take an edge.

Hope this helps.
 
I just went to the ECCKS and met some sword makers. Knife makers at the show agreed that the guys at angelsword.com make some pretty good stuff.

I spoke to them briefly and they told me that they do a lot of swords, knives, and axes for the renaissance fair crowd.

All the pieces are handforged and come with a lifetime guarantee. Keep in mind that the prices are not cheap.
 
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with rather a lot of that.

I do agree that I wouldn't shell out a couple of hundred dollars for something to clear brush (he mentioned that he was clearing out a place to chop wood not actually chopping wood with it). I think a 6 dollar machete would be easier to use for such a task and you wouldn't worry if you hit a rock or something on accident.

There are rather a lot of alternatives in the production sword market for under 1000 dollars. These range from a few hundred dollars for something by Kris Cutlery or Del Tin to 400-700 for something by Angus Trim (high performance pieces) or Arms and Armor (high performance and historical reproductions). Of course none of these would be something that you would want to clear brush with. They are to expensive to risk in such activity when once again you can get that 6 dollar machete. My point is you don't have to spend 1000 dollars to get a decent sword.

Angel sword may in fact make good stuff I've never handled a piece personally. However in my opinion once again it is mostly fantasy oriented and extremely expensive for what you are getting. I wouldn't buy one to clear brush with for sure. I've heard that their stuff is pretty tough but their customer service leaves a bit to be desired. Just what I've heard.

Now about this swords for self defense thing. I would really urge you to reconsider that. If you ever actually used a sword for self defense you might have some serious serious explaining to do to convince the judge you aren't some sort of highlander want to be maniac. There are much more logical and modern alternatives for self defense.

Just my two cents.
 
Of course, the minimum level of quality is subjective and ultimately up to the buyer. So if you find certain production swords good enough, then its good enough.

Personally, having gone through a couple of production swords, I find that I need them custom made and am willing to step up to better materials.

But ultimately, the sword needs to be built to the withstand the activities to be engaged. I think a conan the barbarian type of sword will fit the bill.

I agree that I would not spend all that money on a sword to chop wood or clear brush. But that's just me.

Angel sword is a "fantasy" or period piece maker. They are a custom shop and will basically make anything you want. I haven't bought anything from them so I cannot attest to the ease of custom designing.

I am looking for a good sword maker, and am finding them to be rather pricey in general. Jerry Hossom charges $1000-$2000 for one of his espadas in 3V. Wally Hayes will charge you $10000 for one of his carbon steel katanas. Don't know what the damascus will cost, but you can be it will be more.
 
I certainly find myself much more in agreement with that post.

As you say what is your minimum acceptable standard can only be determined by you. For me several of the production sword makers make stuff that is nice enough. Personally since I have a limited budget I'd rather own a few dozen nice pieces then two or three extraordinary custom pieces but that is me.

I'm curious, would you care to give details of how you used up the production swords that you mentioned? What models those were would also be interesting.

As you say sword were defined for specific jobs that's why we have the variation in sword design that we do. For hacking at brush these sabersmith swords might actually be the way to go if we can't talk the guy into just getting a machete.

To my knowledge Angel sword is just a fantasy maker. I don't mean that in a derogatory way rather I'm simply saying that I've never seen a piece by them that qualifies as a legitimate historical reproduction.

I believe that any custom sword maker will cost you some money after all they are building something to your specifications. I've had some good luck with Canadian smiths thanks to the exchange rate.
 
Angel Sword makes both historically accurate swords as well as "art pieces". But even the art pieces are very functional swords, since we believe that "function comes before beauty".

Daniel Watson
Angel Sword Corp.
 
Hey Triton,

Sure I can tell you about them. I had a 440C katana that I bought for about $100 in the mid-90s. The blade seemed really strong, as I was only using the sword for form. However, it chipped out as I swung it and glanced certain things that should not contact the blade. Anyway, eventually, I hit rattan with it and the blade twisted. The handle was held to the tang by a wooden dowel. I replaced it with a screw.

I had 2 kris swords. They were made in the philipines. The first one was definitely not going to hold up to any contact. The handle was carved to look like a parrot's head with beak. Anyway, I doubted it's ability to serve any real contact so I didn't even bother using it.

The other kris sword, I still have, it is a large barbarian kris sword, with a brass crossguard and pommell with kamagong wood handles. While this one feels more substantial, I doubt the blade is up to any real hard chores before edge rolling, chipping or worse. It was also too heavy to wield effectively.

I also have some carbon steel butterfly swords, that are rather nice and seem like they can take a pretty good edge. However, the handle blade tang junction is pretty flimsy and not to be trusted.

Finally, I have had a plethora of non-sharpenable spring steel practice swords. They have all at one point or another bent or twisted from impact against a rattan pole.

So at this point, I would rather have one or two swords made to withstand real usage rather than a bunch that is made to knife specifications from a metallurgy stand point. Also, I would like to have those swords in sharp and unsharpened versions for training.

I practice martial arts with the swords, knives, sticks, spears and poles and it's not just for forms.

Anyway, welcome Knightsteel! I gave you guys a free forum vendor mention.
 
Mr. Watson,

I was wondering if you could post a link or possibly some pictures of your historical reproductions? I've never seen them or noticed them on your website. I'd be very curious to see them.
 
Sundsvall,

Not to dissuade you from your quest for a custom sword, but honestly it sounds like you were very much on the low end of things in the production sword market. There are rather a lot of production swords which can stand up to "real" use. Some are from the companies I mentioned there are others as well.
 
Triton,

First let's distinguish between historical reproductions and historically accurate. I don't do reproductions of anything, not even my own pieces. As examples of historically accurate let's look at:

http://www.angelsword.com/Bright Knight Assets/bk-falcata.html

http://www.angelsword.com/Bright Knight Assets/bk-jian.html

http://www.angelsword.com/Avatar Assets/avatar-katzbalger_large.html

http://www.angelsword.com/Avatar Assets/avatar-falchion.html

http://www.angelsword.com/Avatar Assets/avatar-vikingdagger.html

Daniel
 
Very beautiful. Perhaps I wasn't looking in all the right places. :) I believe that they all tend to still incorporate fantasy elements to some degree (the katzbalger for example doesn't look like any katzbalger I've ever seen) however having not seen every historical example ever I'm certainly not prepared to say that they couldn't have been. Again nice work.
 
Only gonna speak for the jian since I am not a Euro sword nut.

The jian is too heavy (unless the 2 lbs 5 oz includes the scabbard) and is poorly balanced for a real jian (in terms of historical examples). It does however looks like the AS piece in silhouette form if you squint, but I'm not certain what makes them "historically accurate" if the only thing retained is the *very* basic overall shape.

I don't really consider myself THAT picky, but the specs just don't really say "jian" in any way.
 
What you want is not a sword, but a khukuri. Good for defense, chopping all sorts of stuff, can take abuse, makes a good hammer, prybar, etc. Go to the Himalayan Imports foruum in Makers&Manufacturers section of Bladeforums. Tell em Ferrous sent you. They'll get you hooked up with either a khukuri, a sword-length khukuri, or one of their many tough swords.

As for the "Falcata," THIS:
PK06.jpg

Is a Falcata. Made by Himalayan Imports.
 
Now about this swords for self defense thing. I would really urge you to reconsider that. If you ever actually used a sword for self defense you might have some serious serious explaining to do to convince the judge you aren't some sort of highlander want to be maniac. There are much more logical and modern alternatives for self defense.
Click to expand...

Good point, but for one thing.... I said that that it would be used for self defense where I could not have a firearm... Have permit, do carry... Which would be worse though in the eyes of a jury? At least with a sword there is no doubt that the person was close enough to be an imediate threat. Besides, a sword is a tool, same as a knife, sword, club, or gun. It matters not what tool you use to protect yourself, but how, and when you use it. Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6....

Also, I would not be using it for clearing brush only. I do have a machete for that. Not the 6 dollor one though, more like 26. I like a solid handle, and those 6 buck blades have 6 cent handles. Trust me, I have broken a couple... ;) I also have a United Cutlery "Ninja Sword" that I use almost exclusivly for brush, as it is light weight, cheap in price, and offers a 2 hand grip when needed. The SaberSmith sword that I have handled is a bit too heavy for clearing brush for a hour at a time...

How tough are the SaberSmith swords? It would be used for a little bit of everything. As a traveling companion for those trips where my gun is not allowed, for path finding/clearing when camping or hiking, and yes, in a pinch, chopping.

I make 13k a year, before taxes... These 1 to 10k swords are not in my price range, and as mentioned, would be too expensive to use as a real tool anyway. Tough I would love to own such a fine work!

I am very utilitarian. I have only one blade for show, and its a U.S. Marine dress sword, blade. No handle yet... It has all the ingraving on the blade that the real ones do, and is very nice looking. I paid 10 bucks for it. Good price, even for a big paper-weight. ;)

So back to the question at hand... Are the SaberSmith swords tough enough? I like the profile of the Katana, and Ninja swords, as well as the weight and balance. But I like a straight blade, and the tanto point a bit more the the curved Katana... So what do you all think?

P.S. I am going to look up those other makers, and Thank You for all the replies, they have been most helpfull, and even raised a few more questions I had not thought of yet! That a good thing btw.. :)
 
Hello Robert,

Please tell what antique piece or pieces are you considering as points of reference? I don't know how many historical examples of jians you have handled.

From my side, not only have I seen and handled quite a few, but I have owned and/or restored over a hundred jians between 100 and 650 years old. I am aware of no one example which defines the type since they vary so widely in weight and balance.

This one of mine would probably fit as of the scholar style for the period 1700-1800 or maybe a little earlier. It is far lighter than the battle jian of the period yet slightly heavier than the 19th C scholar's.

But yes there are certain of my own preferences to be seen in the piece. Over 40 years of training in the Chinese martial arts does give me a distinct prejudice.

Daniel Watson

BTW, on the description page, you can click on the image for this close-up:
http://www.angelsword.com/Bright Knight Assets/bk-jian_large.html
 
Zippy,

If you are looking at real swords, toughness is only part of the question. Anything can be made tough. If it is soft enough and/or thick enough, you will not be able to break it easily. But that still may not make it into a functional sword. I don't see any real data on the sabersmith website, but they look awefully heavy and clunky to me.

To see my definition of a sword, I would like to refer you to this page: http://www.angelsword.com/trueswords1.html

Daniel Watson
 
As my area of specialization is Japanese swords, I do not have a very strong personal perspective on jian. Also, as I am now studying taijiquan and have been doing sword work in it for only a little while, I am going mostly by external sources that I trust (not much opportunity for experience in my current situation). This is because that although I have seen a lot of really neat Ming and Qing jian, I simply don't have handling experience with them to know what is really "typical."

I have been looking for a very long time for a quality jian, and have mostly come across very few sources of GOOD info on quality "typical" chang jian that are desirable for CMA.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4663

This thread actually gave me a starting point on "specs" which I have verified in my little experience, and others with experience tend to agree with. In the observations of people I know, jian tend to be balanced at approximately 40% of the overall sword length (starting from pommel end). For a 39" overall sword with 29" blade (just vague numbers to give an idea), this places the balance point out at approximately 5.6" from the base of the blade. This is somewhat on the "outside" of what people consider very fast balance in a European sword or Japanese sword context, but jian are also typically lighter (here, going by the estimate stats offered by Scott, who I feel has more than enough experience with antique Chinese weapons to offer "typical" measurements). In the taijiquan sword movements I am doing, I have started to see how the combination of weight and balance would be beneficial with the style of cutting I'm trying to learn.

I understand that "typical" is not the same as "standard" and is certainly not the same as "every." I have questioned some of the lighter weight comments when I do see jian which are quite shoddy looking overall but appear to be antique (Ming and Qing) and weigh almost 1kg without scabbard. However, they also tend to be balanced farther out than is desired in a sword that weight, and there is no indication that the handle was designed more for 2-handed use. I have handled some very shoddy swords that weigh a little over 1kg with the balance point fairly close to that 40% mark (which coincides with some of the mediocre-looking old pieces), and while it has the right substance for movement, it is a chore to hold the thing up, and becomes painful to the wrist after 20-30 mins.

I would *very* much like to find someone who has both an example of the lighter sword with further out balance, and one which is heavier but balanced closer to determine which feels better in use to me. I simply do not have the money to seek out and buy one of the above-mentioned swords just to try it out--nor do I know anyone who owns one. I either practice with shoddy metal pieces or very shoddy wooden swords...

I'm sorry if my first post came off as if I'm a know-it-all about Chinese swords, but I've said before that I'm a relative beginner in that world. However, I do feel the data I have received, particularly that from sources I trust like Scott, does make a lot of sense when put together. There is bound to be a difference in the feel between a 2 lb sword with a very close balance and a 1.5 lb sword with a further-out balance.

If I were more advanced in my CMA studies, I may be able to warrant experimenting with examples. My opinion very well may change a bit, but I would like to find out why there is such a difference between certain folks.

Hope that clarified my position and opinion a little.:)
 
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