Sales Channels

[HallHandmade]

I am slowly learning that it isn't all rainbows and unicorns in knifemaker land. I've had a couple recent incidents with customers that have made me rethink my entire system. I'm at the point now where I will need to start adding a lengthy disclaimer to my sale ads, and that just isn't something I'm interested in doing.

I've had a veritable flood of commission requests. It has gotten so bad that just replying to commission requests and maintenance of current commissions is taking an hour or more per day to keep up with. God forbid I'm gone for a few days, in which case I might have a full day or even days of nothing but email and phone calls.

It has gotten to the point where I am spending so much time attending customer communications that it is starting to prevent me from doing what I'm here to do, which is making knives.

I find that most customers are very understanding that I'm a one man operation, but some expect me to reply to their emails instantly, or threaten to escalate to PayPal or forum staff. The amazon.com/eBay "I want my item shipped the day before the seller was born" is becoming a bit much to deal with, and still be able to handle my daily knifemaking tasks with any efficiency.

One maker I'm friends with suggested just going to shows only, as he said that at my quality and price I'd likely clear my tables, and wouldn't have to deal with any of the communication issues.

I still want to be able to offer knives to forum members, but I don't want to have to become a "soup nazi" seller with a big disclaimer; it seems I may need to.

As far as commissions go, I'm just going to keep raising my prices until they start coming in at a level I can handle.

What is the best way to handle this without alienating customers? I still respond very promptly to messages, but I am sometimes delayed in shipping. With all the time I spend on communication and my shop obligations, I simply can't afford to spend an hour a day going to the post office, or even every other day sometimes.

I'm getting about 10-20 emails a day on average, and 3-5 new commission requests a week (I only end up taking half or less). I have something over 60 active commissions staggered into later this year, and each one of those checks in at least every week or two. I have had some that have emailed 3-5 times a day for over a month or more. One commission is approaching 150 emails, and I have a couple that are creeping up on 100.

 

[Tx Bass Tech]

I just put kit knives together for fun so I don't worry about selling anything yet. I was one of the last people to commission a knife from Andy Roy before he quit taking orders because of many of the very issues you are talking about. Now Andy builds knives to his vision and is selling almost everything he makes. From what I have read on this forum, he is not the only knife-maker to quit taking orders. I'm sure some of the professional makers will chime in on this subject. As a knife buyer, I have found that when a knife maker creates what they want, the results are usually MUCH BETTER than anything I would have thought of. You will also have more time in the shop to make knives.

Just looked at your website. Your knives do look great!

 

[FullyTorque]

If you like doing commissions, then start replying that you have a waiting period of so many months. Take their information and contact them when you're ready yo start on their knife.
If you want to get away from commissions and do your own thing without alienating customers, then start a buyers list. Give those that have bought your work before first shot at any new knife, then you potential buyers, and then post online.
Ps- if you go that route Id like yo be on the list. I still kick myself for not buying one of your first knives. Those were a steal, and may be worth even more one day.

 

[james terrio]

There's a reason so many makers simply stop taking orders after a couple years. Custom commissions can quickly become overwhelming. I'm trying to trim back on those and just build up a small line of standards as well. On the other hand, it's hard to turn down work...

Promise long, fairly vague wait times and quote high to start with. That will "weed out" about half the looky-lou's right off the bat. You do not want to be stuck with specific dates of delivery and come down with the flu the week before.

Responding to a dozen e-mails a day does get mighty tiresome... especially when most of them ask the same questions. Putting together my subforum (esp. the pics and FAQ threads) is helping me build up a series of pre-written, concise and informative paragraphs. When a new question comes along, I write it up there. That way I have something to copy/paste and/or link to next time it comes around.

 

[Bigfattyt]

If you are at the point where you can sell what ever you make, and they are not languishing on the exchange, you could just stop taking commissioned orders. Close your books for a while.

I know custom makers who don't take orders any more just because of these issues. You don't have to put up with morons.

You make great knives. If you are doing it for a living, and enjoy it, you have to focus on keeping it that way!

 

[AVigil]

Ian...

You don't have to go to the post office! I make custom airgun parts and have sold hundreds of them. When I discovered USPS.COM where you can print postage and have the mail man pick it up my visits to the post office dropped dramatically.

It is cheaper to print postage from USPS.com and priority boxes are free and they will deliver them to your home.

Trying to answer phone calls and email will cause a one man shop come to a stand still. Pick office hours to deal with that and put that info in your email signature so people are aware you are not on call 24/7

 

[Mitchell Knives]

I stopped taking orders for many of the reasons mentioned previously.

In my experience, being consumed by orders and everything that goes along with them quickly takes the fun out of making knives.

 

[Mike Gesualdo]

I'm by no means near the level you're at in terms of everything... but after only a few commissions, I stopped taking them completely. Not only is it a pain to juggle commissions, but with even a few... I didn't like the feeling of having things looming over my head. Not to mention, making things others wanted me to make, rather than things I wanted to make, really took the fun out of it. Oh, and depending on how you do things, you're locked into a price, even if your skills (value) improves, materials costs increase, or you take certain creative freedoms that increase the cost. Oh, and if you don't take a down-payment, they can simply decide to drop off the face of the Earth. While I'm sure commissions work great with the right customers... I just can't imagine taking it on 60 random customers who are probably requesting complete one-offs (a run on the other hand may be a little more manageable).

First off, I would highly recommend not taking more commissions if you can afford to do so I'd bet it'd take a huge burden off of your back... I don't think you'll have any problem gathering a list of people who will keep an eye out for your stuff.

I would also highly suggest taking advantage of the resources out there. What I did after the commission requests started flowing in faster than I could handle at my super slow pace... I turned to the dreaded F-word (Facebook). I simply make what I want, and post them when I finish for what I want for them (and delete it when I'm done so people who can't read comments stop asking if it's still available). It hits all of the people who are specifically interested in my work, so it's more likely to be seen by a potential customer. Not to mention, it creates a sense of "urgency" to those who see it... "I'm not sure if I want to spend $300 on that knife... but if I don't pick it up now, I may never get the opportunity for another like it again!"

Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr, any blog site work as well. Social media is a fact of life these days for a business... while unpopular with some people, it has its purpose. It's a lot easier to just do mass posts there than it is responding to 100+ different people. People have major ADD these days (myself included) with the internet, so they get antsy when they have to wait more than 3 days for something. Heaven forbid they hear radio silence, and they freak. They don't realize the fact that while they have 1 "Hall Handmade" knife they have to worry about, which is their world and probably on their mind all the time, you have 100+. A post with some random knife-related pictures on a daily/weekly reassures them that you're working diligently with their orders... and who doesn't love WIP/progress/shop pictures 5 minutes a day works wonders in calming the storm. Not to mention, they're fantastic places to reach new customers you normally wouldn't. When someone "likes" or "shares" a post, your post can reach their friends. That said, I've been pretty bad about updating my page recently... I should probably get on that, haha.

Just a little side story that's somewhat related... I currently work in construction management... one of the large projects I work on every year is a resurfacing program where we generally work on 40-50 street segments with 1-2 crews. Much like working on a list of knives, we work by sections of streets in stages... which means we aren't everywhere at once. I would receive dozens of calls on a daily basis regarding the same thing... "You said you'd be working today, where are you! The Sun is out!" People get antsy. Each one turned into a 5-30 minute phone call which would generally eat up a significant portion of my day. One of my solutions this year to try and mitigate the calls was to create a sort of "construction blog." I simply posted a short update on occasion that described what we did, and what was coming up soon. That little amount of reassurance that we were indeed working diligently caused those sort of calls to drop off significantly.

Mike

 

[i4Marc]

I guess this falls into the "be careful what you ask for" category. It's a nice problem to have. If you are doing well enough, perhaps hiring someone to handle the clerical work would help? That way you could concentrate on making knives and not calls. I haven't gotten to your stage yet but I firmly intend on making knives that I like. If people like them I'll sell them. When people get familiar with your style and it speaks to them they will stay interested and the product will move. Let us know how you decide to solve your issues.

 

[HallHandmade]

I just put kit knives together for fun so I don't worry about selling anything yet. I was one of the last people to commission a knife from Andy Roy before he quit taking orders because of many of the very issues you are talking about. Now Andy builds knives to his vision and is selling almost everything he makes. From what I have read on this forum, he is not the only knife-maker to quit taking orders. I'm sure some of the professional makers will chime in on this subject. As a knife buyer, I have found that when a knife maker creates what they want, the results are usually MUCH BETTER than anything I would have thought of. You will also have more time in the shop to make knives.

Just looked at your website. Your knives do look great!

Thanks

I read Andy's explanation, and a lot of it resonates with me. The main thing holding me back is that when I get those few special customers that want to work on a very unique piece, it almost makes the less ideal commissions worth putting up with.

A well known maker suggested that I significantly increase the price of my commission work, as that will weed out all but the most serious buyers, who will be appreciative of the quality and effort I put into my full customs.

It is just so hard for me to do that, because the #1 reason that I price low is to keep my work accessible to as many buyers as possible. I like the idea that I can help someone to get a knife nicer than they could otherwise afford, but unfortunately that also attracts a slightly less desirable demographic.

If you like doing commissions, then start replying that you have a waiting period of so many months. Take their information and contact them when you're ready yo start on their knife.
If you want to get away from commissions and do your own thing without alienating customers, then start a buyers list. Give those that have bought your work before first shot at any new knife, then you potential buyers, and then post online.
Ps- if you go that route Id like yo be on the list. I still kick myself for not buying one of your first knives. Those were a steal, and may be worth even more one day.

I really do like doing commissions, primarily for those few really special ones I get. Those are some of the ones that help me stay interested in the craft.

Even though I have been busy enough with commission work to effect my service to my customers, I have at least scheduled a great deal of them several months out. For instance I have a buyer that has a kitchen set on order as well as a few different EDC's, and requested that I deliver them every 5-6 weeks or so at my convenience, over the course of a year. That one buyer is something like 10% of my current commission list, and has been one of my biggest supporters, especially in the very beginning.

On the last few, I've been quoting 3-6 months, so at least I can say that I haven't made any unrealistic promises to customers. Even so, I find myself going slightly (or occasionally more than slightly) over my initial estimate. I don't take deposits and keep my promises rather nebulous, but even so, I find the sheer amount to think about very stressful.

There's a reason so many makers simply stop taking orders after a couple years. Custom commissions can quickly become overwhelming. I'm trying to trim back on those and just build up a small line of standards as well. On the other hand, it's hard to turn down work...

Promise long, fairly vague wait times and quote high to start with. That will "weed out" about half the looky-lou's right off the bat. You do not want to be stuck with specific dates of delivery and come down with the flu the week before.

Responding to a dozen e-mails a day does get mighty tiresome... especially when most of them ask the same questions. Putting together my subforum (esp. the pics and FAQ threads) is helping me build up a series of pre-written, concise and informative paragraphs. When a new question comes along, I write it up there. That way I have something to copy/paste and/or link to next time it comes around.

That is very good advice. I'm desperately in need of a website update, if I added a FAQ section, perhaps I could link to it in my sale ads, so that I still have a disclaimer for customers, but it wouldn't be a wall of text in the ad itself. Just a single sentence asking that they read the FAQ before buying. I wonder if that is within forum rules? I know links are Ok in sig for makers, but not sure if links in sale ad are ok?

If you are at the point where you can sell what ever you make, and they are not languishing on the exchange, you could just stop taking commissioned orders. Close your books for a while.

I know custom makers who don't take orders any more just because of these issues. You don't have to put up with morons.

You make great knives. If you are doing it for a living, and enjoy it, you have to focus on keeping it that way!

I just feel like taking these commissions is making my performance here on the exchange suffer, as well as the commissions suffering. It's almost like it has to be one or the other at this point. I'm beginning to get local and word of mouth sales enough to keep me with a full schedule by themselves, so it's almost like both internet commissions and exchange sales are just too much at this point, and I haven't even gotten to go to a show... having enough knives on hand and unsold to fill a show table is just unreality for me at this point. It's unusual for me to have more than 2-3 finished knives at any time, and even more unusual for any more than one of those to be unsold.

Ian...

You don't have to go to the post office! I make custom airgun parts and have sold hundreds of them. When I discovered USPS.COM where you can print postage and have the mail man pick it up my visits to the post office dropped dramatically.

It is cheaper to print postage from USPS.com and priority boxes are free and they will deliver them to your home.

Trying to answer phone calls and email will cause a one man shop come to a stand still. Pick office hours to deal with that and put that info in your email signature so people are aware you are not on call 24/7

The main thing killing me is that my fiancé works night shift as an RN, and she as been taking extra hours in anticipation of us buying a house. I've switched to night shift as much as possible, so I'm not always awake during the day, and often times I have to use the dropbox outside business hours. That makes pickup an iffy proposition.

I'm really starting to like the idea of linking a FAQ in my sale ads, if it is within forum rules.

I stopped taking orders for many of the reasons mentioned previously.

In my experience, being consumed by orders and everything that goes along with them quickly takes the fun out of making knives.

That's what I'm starting to feel... the negative downturn in my experience interacting with customers, combined with exhausting hours, has begun to make me lose interest in being in the shop, which is the last thing I want to happen. I still really enjoy this, and don't want it to go sour.

I'm by no means near the level you're at in terms of everything...

snip

I think your work is very nice.

Another aspect of this is, I've been barely able to keep up a mediocre level of service with my current workload, so there has been next to no time for social media aspects of my Knifemaking. Just an occasional picture in the shop pics thread, and that's few and far between.

That's a good idea on the blog too.

 

[Storm Crow]

Maybe have a designated shipping day? "All purchases will be shipped on Friday." It's nice from a customer standpoint to have it shipped the day after purchase, but as a one-man sop, that may be the way to go.

 

[Willie71]

In the custom bicycle world, a lot of the makers had a blog, where they would post a pic or two per week on the projects they were working on, and a list of their future projects in the order they were scheduled. This would reduce the 1:1 answering of questions. Its important to update regularly, once a week or so. Questions or comments can go in the blog as well.

Warren

 

[bodog]

.....

 

[William Schrade]

I only sell what I have already made. At my age (61) who needs the pressure. If I take too many commissions it would take the enjoyment out of it. If you have a good product and it sells, don't fix what's not broken. Limit your commissions to a few a month. The time you waste with correspondents is time you could use making knives you could sell.

 

[james terrio]

I'm a little embarassed to say that I haven't updated my website in months... but I still get orders through it. Most of them are quite clear on what they want, because they have read the materials/testing page, FAQs, etc. That saves both me and the client a lot of time.

That is very good advice. I'm desperately in need of a website update, if I added a FAQ section, perhaps I could link to it in my sale ads, so that I still have a disclaimer for customers, but it wouldn't be a wall of text in the ad itself. Just a single sentence asking that they read the FAQ before buying. I wonder if that is within forum rules? I know links are Ok in sig for makers, but not sure if links in sale ad are ok?

I don't see why not. Ask Mike-G, glockmann99, RevDevil or rycen in tech support to be sure (they're the mods who keep an eye on the exchange).

I hesitated on the FaceBook thing too, but it just makes sense. There are only so many people who visit the forums. There are a heckuva lot more people who use FB. And of course you can cross-link FB with BF with your website, etc. I also have a tumblr account - mainly for backing up photos, but it's another venue used by tons of people who never heard of knife forums.

Maybe have a designated shipping day? "All purchases will be shipped on Friday."

I've been pondering that, too. Like doing anything else, it's a lot quicker to package up six knives at once when you have all the stuff laid out, than to fool around doing one a day and putting your boxes/tape/wrapping etc away. Even if you do print your own postage and have USPS or UPS pick it up, but especially if you have to drive across town to drop it off...

 

[Mike Gesualdo]

The main thing holding me back is that when I get those few special customers that want to work on a very unique piece, it almost makes the less ideal commissions worth putting up with.
...
I really do like doing commissions, primarily for those few really special ones I get. Those are some of the ones that help me stay interested in the craft.
...
That one buyer is something like 10% of my current commission list, and has been one of my biggest supporters, especially in the very beginning.
...
I just feel like taking these commissions is making my performance here on the exchange suffer, as well as the commissions suffering.
...
That's what I'm starting to feel... the negative downturn in my experience interacting with customers, combined with exhausting hours, has begun to make me lose interest in being in the shop, which is the last thing I want to happen. I still really enjoy this, and don't want it to go sour.

I might be stating the obvious here, but sounds like you desperately need to trim the fat from your list. Those are the customers you should be keeping and considering for the future... let the others find someone else to pester

It seems as if you're trying to please everyone... and while admirable, I don't think anyone, especially customers, want it to make your work suffer. I found it extremely hard in the beginning to say "no" to people, especially friends and family, but I found that everyone is extremely understanding if you just tell them the truth. It's taking a toll on both your mental state and work... you're trying to keep it interesting and enjoyable for yourself so you can continue to do what you love and improve at it. I don't think anyone can fault you for that... and if they do, they don't deserve to be your customer in the first place.

Raising prices should definitely help trim the that list... and personally, I think you can raise them fairly significantly from where you're at. I understand remaining accessible is a major goal of yours, but while also an admirable goal, you aren't running a charity. I understand (from the other thread) that you're one of us fortunate to not have to worry too much about the knives you make putting a roof over your head, but more money means more materials and toys for the shop which can advance you as a maker. If they don't sell as quickly at a higher price... well you solved your knife show dilemma A backup isn't a bad thing to have.

As for social media... I think that's just a fancy term meant to scare people off so certain people can make big bucks from doing it. My cousin owns a social media firm with a small list of fairly large clients that she runs while at Graduate school. She's a one-woman show at the moment... she quite literally spends an hour or two every night making a short post on a list of pages, and makes enough to cover her tuition and mortgage payments. If the companies knew how simple it was, I don't think they'd be paying what they do for it

Snap a picture or two while you work or of your unfinished stuff at the end of the day, and upload it somewhere once a week (or more if you wish). Post your actual "list" if you'd like, so people can see where they're at. You can even do an FAQ that answers any other common questions that slip past. Takes just a few minutes of your time, and I guarantee it'll save you far more time in responding to personal emails. I know the larger customer pool that comes with it is the last thing on your mind right now... but a larger customer pool means more of the right customers.

Mike

 

[Willie71]

Edit: Duplicate to post from yesterday. Weird.

 

[Salem Straub]

It is just so hard for me to do that, because the #1 reason that I price low is to keep my work accessible to as many buyers as possible. I like the idea that I can help someone to get a knife nicer than they could otherwise afford, but unfortunately that also attracts a slightly less desirable demographic.

I wrestled with the same issue for a long time. I just quit taking orders, and make what I want now. It's so much better, at least for me. There is a glut of well made low priced handmade knives on the market if you hadn't noticed, why not let someone else fill that niche.

 

[Chuck Gedraitis Knives]

If your getting bombarded with emails I would set up an automatic email reply so as soon as someone emails you they will get a response. Something like
" I thank you for your interest in my knives. Currently I have about a 6 month backlog. If you would like to be added to my order list I would be happy to add your name. I will reply to your email in a timely manner in the order in which it was received. "
Thank you for your patience.
Hall Handmade Knives."

 

[BenR.T.]

I would stop taking orders. Your work speaks for itself and should sell quickly on most knife forums.

As far as shipping goes, I highly recommend just printing your shipping off on the USPS website or through paypal when you receive a payment. Print the shipping, tape it the box and put it in your mailbox. Boom, done. That saves me tons of time and many trips to the PO. Plus you save a small percentage by printing your shipping online.

Oh yeah, stop taking orders. Or at least stop taking orders for custom designs, that is a huge time consumer.