Salt pot question

D

DanielKrohn

Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
4
Do most people build their own salt pot or buy them? I'm not sure I want to try making one, but if it was significantly cheaper than a commercial one I just might. I know I want a gas powered one with a temperature controller. I mostly use O-1, 5160, and 1095, but I sometimes use 52100 and L-6.
 
I keep reading warnings about getting water or oil into the salts. How do you keep your tongs (dipped in HT oil every few minutes) from causing a volcano?
 
Intelligence is the key here. Do not put something wet into the salt pot. Though it does not become a spouting volcano, it does splatter instantly. I put a cold stir stick that had some old salt on it into mine today. It splattered and I have a new scar. It was not too bad but could have been. I think the terror stories are a bit over done. I now know to heat my stir stick to make sure it is dry. You can also do the same with your tongs. i suspend my blades with a wire and only use the tongs to pull out and quench. They never actually contact the salt, but then I made sure they were burned off before I put them into the top of the pot.
 
Chuck, it spatters at the surface. If something like moisture or oil gets well below the surface before burning off, volcano is not an accurate description if one is thinking of the cartoon volcano or the gentle type tourist attractions like they have in Hawaii and other places. The volcano I have seen my salts turn into is like Krakatoa, Pinatubo or St. Helens, not an overflow but an explosion capable of putting 2/3 of tubes content into the air as a 1200F rain shower.

I have been slowly leaning towards a policy of limiting how much advice I will give on salt bath construction due to the frequency of e-mail I receive from folks with incredibly basic questions who have already began construction:eek:. There is the old expression about price- if you need to ask, you can't afford it. There are those questions about salt baths that I believe if a person needs to ask, they obviously have not done enough research on a thing that can easily kill them in a very ugly way. Imagine a person building a fission reactor in his back yard and is ready to insert the uranium rods, before he bothers to research the role of carbon or what all that silly cooling stuff is about! Unless the questions indicate that this person has done his research before construction and is appropriately terrified of what these units can do when things go wrong, I feel a little squeamish about encouraging any further progress. Folks, who would say that I exaggerate the danger, obviously have never seen a true salt bath mishap as I have.

If you don’t have a very good understanding of them I would say that if you can afford to buy them, and KNOW the maker knows exactly what they are doing, you may be better off taking that route.
 
Think of this. Water expands 1500 times when it creates steam. Thats at 212f and atmoshiric preasure. As the temp goes up so does the volume. It takes about 600f to make 600# steam which is very very deadly. The temps in a HT saltpot would be capable of creating pressures well over 1200psi. (I have worked on 1200psi steam systems) True there is no containment but, the volumes still occur. 1200psi is about 82 times atmoshperic and 82 times 1500 is 123,000. So if you get on single drop of water into the salt it will expand over 123 thousand times taking hot salt with it. Seeing how the pot will direct all this out the top it could be spectacular NOT GOOD. Chuck just had the tiny bit of moisture in the old salt if it would have been wet Ka BOOM
 
To add my 2 cents.....I have, and will provide advice on specific questions about building a salt tank, but have been asked by a number of people to provide plans, and I will absolutely NOT do that. I agree with Kevin's post...there are far too many folks wanting salt tanks, that do not have even a basic understanding of what their asking for. There are a number of things that can cause serious injury when dealing with salt tanks...... and I believe that if an individual isn't capable of building their own tanks, then they're not aware enough to own one. That might sound crude, but its what I believe.

When Darren started offering his salt tanks, I remember he emailed me, asking my opinion, and I told him I thought it was a very BAD idea....all it takes is one moron purchasing a salt tank from him, getting hurt, and he could loose everything. Even though I offer forge plans, and will soon be offering plans/parts for building an improved platen for the KMG, they all contain a disclaimer that I paid a lawyer to draw up for me.....even at that, my lawyer made the statement that nothing if foolproof when it comes to liability.

Maybe I got a bit off track......sorry.

Salt tanks are a great asset in the shop, but not understanding what your dealing with can cause you serious injury.
 
I'm sorry. I assumed that he knew what he was doing, he just would prefer to buying one as to building it himself. I myself won't even touch one. Maybe further down the road when I understand more about it I might consider building one. That is a big maybe.

-Mike Sheffield
 
I'm terrified of salt pots, my teacher got badly burned on his leg and torso and although he continues to use one I'm rather reluctant.

I used to do commercial roofing and have seen the results of water getting into the pump tube on a tar kettle. I want NO part of something more than twice that hot turning into a volcano near my workshop.
 
Now to balance out my previous post I would also say that if one thoroughly educates themselves and takes a very professional attitude towards their use, salt baths can be one of the most powerful tools a knifemaker could own. Any piece of power equipment is dangerous if you don't play by the rules. DanielKrohn hasn't asked any of those questions that would indicate he is bent on suicide. It is just when I get questions like "will regular table salt work?", or see a setup being built that is basically a time bomb, I feel it is more responsible for me to discourage the people who feel thay have it all figured out and only need a couple of pointers from me. If a person asks advice on the best burner valve or PID I am fine with that, but when people are asking questions to which the answers should be VERY obvious and are already in the process of building a gadget that can kill them, I think it is a good time to be scared.
 
As I was contemplating my response last night, I thought about the what if you dropped something on or did not allow proper burn off. Kevin is absolutely correct and I did not think about that portion at the time. Like I said be intelligent about it. If you do not understand it don't use it. Use all the safety equipment that is necessary and them some extra just in case. It only takes on instant of not paying attention and it could be real bad.
 
As an aside,
This is exactly why folks should fill out all of their profile information. Daniel Krohn may be a retired nuclear physicist,.............or he could be a 16 year old with a brenzomatic and a claw hammer. With nothing to go on, I always assume the latter.
As with all things, more information yields better answers.
Stacy
 
I'm just saying it is hard to give an answer to a question like salt pots, which are very dangerous in the wrong hands, without some kind of idea who you are talking to.
My favorite uninformed question is, "Can I do the HT in my kitchen oven?" That definitely comes under the, "If you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it!" category.
Stacy
 
Will Leavitt said:
Stacy I know some physicists I wouldn't trust with a claw hammer.... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Some engineers I have come across fascinate me too. One of them wanted me to hot torgue the floating head on an running 700degree 1400psi heat heat exchanger. I had to point out that as it was inside the pressure vessel I would have a very hard time with that task. Or plans to built a small tank with instructions to fillet weld all seams inside and out when the thing only has a couple very small openings LOL. Yup, they went to college and they have real diplomas. Ah well they do usually learn.
 
My fiance's grandfather was the head electrician during the construction of a nuclear power plant. He was working with an EE who couldn't seem to figure out why 2 pump motors wouldn't sync up. After a few hours they called it a day. That Monday the project manager called them in and asked what the problem was.... "motors wouldn't sync up," said the EE.... manager looked at him and asked if he asked the electrician what was wrong, "errrr no" manager asked the electrician "he forgot to put on the jumper wire."

Lot to be said for experience, education is important, I guess... :)
 
I guess I chose a bad example in the profession I used as an example. The point was that the poster had not filled out his profile.

There are idiots in every skilled profession, and geniuses working for $9.00/hour.
I used to work with Dr. Davidson. He was the second smartest man I ever met. He had invented/developed everything from gunpowders, to rifles, to chemical processes, to ski aerobatic maneuvers,to you name it. He was an Olympic marksman, rifleman,and skier. He was one of the pioneers in ski aerobatics ( supposedly he was the first to do a double back-flip). Yet, he would walk into my lab and just stand there with a blank face. He would look around and finally turn and walk out. He would have forgotten why he was there. An hour or two later he would rush back in and ask me what he needed to know. Nutty professor, absolutely! Still, if he had asked me about salt pots, I would have known that he had the ability to understand what I told him.
Stacy
 
I know. we were just cracking up a bit. I understand what you meant. At least I think I do. LOL. So hey how about table salt. What temp does it melt at and can you use it? I met a local guy at the North West Blacksmith spring conference who lives fairly close and he has a pot so I am going to find out first hand.
 
I know we were talking about extremes :) I used to work for a General that was a rocket surgeon but couldn't figure out the copier or coffee pot. I'd follow that man into hell wearing gasoline underwear but wouldn't trust him to make a pot of coffee...

I know I shouldn't post after spending 4 hours in a bar but I think I type pretty good for someone that's drunk and ate at the Waffle House :D
 
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