Salt pots and hamons

[Burchtree]

Anyone know if you can use satanite in salt pots? I do mainly all folders with hamons and have been thinking about trying the salts.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

You would first have to bake the knife at maybe 200 degrees with the clay on for a while to be 100% certain there was no latent moisture in the clay.
Otherwise, obviously, it would vaporize upon insertion in the salts and would throw Alien Blood all over the shop.
Other than that, I think someone should try it!

 

[jdm61]

Howard Clark does it by baking his clayed up blades at 600 degrees plus for a while before "salting" them, but he freely admits that he is a bit crazy. Remember that ANY water, even a tiny bit of water trapped in rust, can flash to steam and turn your slat pot into a mini volcano.

 

[NickWheeler]

Hey Michael-

Saw this before your message.

I have done it a few dozen times, but I don't recommend it. The moisture was never an issue in my shop. Never had one cause the salt to "spit" even a little bit. I would put the clayed up blades in the oven at tempering temps for an hour. Since it only takes a minute or two to reach austenitizing temps in the salts, you want to make sure you have your tempering oven up to temp anyway.

However, putting the clay in the salt will make the salt go to hell in a hurry. You don't have to do this very many times before the salt will start to create a bunch of nasty scaling in the blades.

All that aside, I never got any crazy great hamons by doing it. I have gotten a lot of crazy cool differential hardening with salt simply by manipulating its super tight control over time and temp... but those were bare blades with no clay.

For clay hardened blades, I haven't found anything better than a forge with nice, even heat and a digital temp monitor. This is IMHO far superior to a kiln, because you can take the blade out to check it as often as you want, with only a slight deviation in temperature (that quickly climbs back up anyway).

Where the salt excels, IMHO, for a hamon chaser is in all of the thermal cycles you can do with them, prior to austenitizing.

 

[Kentucky]

We have always had very good luck getting really nice hamon activity out of our temp controlled forge..Actually its a regular two burner forge with a homemade muffle and thermocouple..We control temp with baffles and the gas flow BUT it will hold temps within two degrees anywhere I want them..Just takes some adjustment in getting it there..takes about 30-40 minutes to get it rock stable at 1475*(though when shooting for hamons about 1450* is as high as we go)
Im no hamon expert but all it really took was some simple advice for our hamons to really get going..Howard Clark told me "Less heat, less clay, less etch more polish"..Most all of the other great hamon guys have said about the same thing..

 

[Burchtree]

Thanks. I use the heat-treat oven for my thermal cycles and forge with pyrometer for final HT. I think I just want an excuse to build some salt pots.

Hey Michael-

Saw this before your message.

I have done it a few dozen times, but I don't recommend it. The moisture was never an issue in my shop. Never had one cause the salt to "spit" even a little bit. I would put the clayed up blades in the oven at tempering temps for an hour. Since it only takes a minute or two to reach austenitizing temps in the salts, you want to make sure you have your tempering oven up to temp anyway.

However, putting the clay in the salt will make the salt go to hell in a hurry. You don't have to do this very many times before the salt will start to create a bunch of nasty scaling in the blades.

All that aside, I never got any crazy great hamons by doing it. I have gotten a lot of crazy cool differential hardening with salt simply by manipulating its super tight control over time and temp... but those were bare blades with no clay.

For clay hardened blades, I haven't found anything better than a forge with nice, even heat and a digital temp monitor. This is IMHO far superior to a kiln, because you can take the blade out to check it as often as you want, with only a slight deviation in temperature (that quickly climbs back up anyway).

Where the salt excels, IMHO, for a hamon chaser is in all of the thermal cycles you can do with them, prior to austenitizing.

 

[jdm61]

Michael, from what I have been reading and hearing over the last year or so, I get the idea that high temp salt pots combined with proper cryo may actually be MORE beneficial for high alloy tool and stainless steel, but to do that properly you would need two high temp pots and having three might be even better so you can do a second lower temp pre-heat and/or a quench at around 1000F. As for hamons, I saw John White do his with a small Fogg forge and he was able to hold that temp at 1425F at + or - 2-3 degrees. Worked like a charm.

 

[A C Richards]

Tried it on many blades, caused so many problems I am about to sell my pot. I found that the residual salt left on the blade would cause a muddy effect in the hamon. As mentioned before, make absolutely sure there is ZERO moisture in the clay. If you decide to try it take the blade straight out of the HOT oven and put it into the salt. Then make sure you have a good leather apron, gloves and a face shield. The volcano effect happens so fast you cannot get out of the way. It only happened to me once, that was enough. I am super careful and preheat everything I put into the salt.