Salt Pots just arrivednd

Kevin-

I apologize if it came off like I was directing my reply at you! :o I wasn't. In fact, I agree with what you posted. My reply was based on the general theme of replies I have seen around knife forums about salt baths.

There are always folks who go out of their way to ONLY point out the hazards of using salt, and never seem to mention the benefits. That's why I made the gun analogy. I hear folks who have never even touched a gun, let alone fired off a round, saying things like, "You could shoot yourself in the face!!! I will never have a gun!!! :eek:"

Well, yes.... Yes, you could shoot yourself in the face. ;)


I do, however, have to disagree on one point. IMHO, salt is the best medium for just about any knife blade. We're dealing with such odd cross sections in knife blades---- getting a blade to EXACTLY the same temp throughout (from the thin tip to the thick ricasso) is a tricky venture. Salt does it extremely well.... whether you're using a deep hardening steel like O1 or just doing the thermal cycles on a W2 blade to prep it for clay hardening. It's the best way to know for sure that your steel has been taken to the temperatures that you were shooting for.

I totally agree that they can be a pain if you just need to do one blade. I have used mine many times for just one....but my preference is to have at least a few blades ready to go in the salt.

I hadn't replied to the op because I have never used a kiln set up like Tim Zowada's. I would like how it would be pretty much silent, I would be concerned about the time it might take to get the salt up to temp.

I just ran my salt bath (a gas fired, blown, vertical forge with a 4" diam X 20" sch 40, 316L salt vessel) and it was at 1500F in 17 minutes. That's half the time of my Paragon.

To the OP, unless you are talking about a very small area, putting ss sheet all around the pots seems like a very big, and unnecessary expense.

And yes, definitely make sure you don't have any moisture on the blades before submerging them in the molten salt. I grew up helping my Dad pour lead fishing sinkers, so the no moisture thing was second nature for me.... but I have to admit that might not be so obvious to someone that hasn't worked with a molten material MUCH hotter than the boiling point of water.


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These are just a few W2 blades I have done with my salt bath and Park50... no clay. I haven't been able to duplicate this with my other heat sources.

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This parallels the discussion on how dangerous angle grinders are. With the right user, the right safety checks, and the right sequence of use, they will work. It is a tool like any other tool, and can produce a masterpiece, or can blow your face off. I will get one eventually, but I am still too new at this and don't have enough of my variables controlled for to benefit from it.
 
That's right, Willie, I could really go off on angle grinders- not only have they sent me to the eye doctor twice (once while wearing goggles, once when I was very young and dumb) but I recently cut a finger nearly off because i didn't properly secure my work piece, one sad little day. The only tool that has sent me to the ER.

Like so many tools, I think it makes sense to treat a pot like it's just waiting for a chance to hurt you bad. We all use table saws, and every doctor that saw my finger assumed that I'd done it on a table saw, they see so many like that.
Salt pots are kind of rare in daily life so they have an exotic danger associated with them.
 
Hey Nick- no prob. Yes I totally agree salts are really a superior way to HT. Great pics you posted!! :thumbup:

I have only used electric kilns and not gas fired. The electric are very slow in getting the salt to temp and costly which was the main reason for me not continuing with them as I only usually HT a couple of blades at a time. But one can really nail the HT temps with great accuracy.

My comments were mostly to caution any newbie to salts to use caution that's all.

Love your work man! I follow your posts for great and reliable info. (I'm usually a lurker ;) )
 
Wow. Days of nothing then a total storm. Guys thanks for the scare on safety, I don't think it was needed but your hearts were in the right place. I have done a lot of research on the safety needed for salt pots in general. I am new to Mr. Zowada's set up, but am familiar with salt pots in general.

I believe more people have been hurt by their drill presses on this forum than have been hurt with salt pots. That is not something any of use should be proud about but it's just a sad fact.

To some of the comments. The salt pots are 36" length with a set pro controller. They are electric for now and I want to convert them to gas. That is one of the reason's I was hoping to hear from someone who had the same setup to see what all they did to theirs. If I cant convert them then I will build out a set of 18" salt pots that run gas for single blades.

Secondly the stainless steel sheet metal was for the landlord and not for me. It has taken me several months to find an industrial space that would rent to me. If it wasn't for Rob Thomas's kindness in showing the landlord the difference between his nazel 5b hammers and small hammer like I wanted I wouldn't be renting here and still looking for a place to move my shop to. So area's that the walls will be subject to grinding dust and sparks will have a small piece of 20 gauge stainless steel on the wall to take the abuse. Mr. Zowada showed me a picture of really cool drip tray someone had made for their salt pots and figured it would be a great idea to build one myself. So I am more looking for input on those that have a similar set up and what has made their life easier so I could incorporate it into my setup.

Thanks for everyone's input. Especially to those that work with salt pots who contributed here.
 
Nick, I know you need salt with special additives to do it, but can you kit get up into the 1990-200 range you would need for high ally and stainless steels? I have talked to a couple of commercial guys and they do it, but IIRC, they use two or even three separate high temp "pots" to do the ramp up/pre-heat, one at say 1500, one at austenizing temp and maybe even one at 1000 or so.[ Also, how "low" of an austenizing temp did you use to get the "accidental hamon?'QUOTE=NickWheeler;12522920]Kevin-

I apologize if it came off like I was directing my reply at you! :o I wasn't. In fact, I agree with what you posted. My reply was based on the general theme of replies I have seen around knife forums about salt baths.

There are always folks who go out of their way to ONLY point out the hazards of using salt, and never seem to mention the benefits. That's why I made the gun analogy. I hear folks who have never even touched a gun, let alone fired off a round, saying things like, "You could shoot yourself in the face!!! I will never have a gun!!! :eek:"

Well, yes.... Yes, you could shoot yourself in the face. ;)


I do, however, have to disagree on one point. IMHO, salt is the best medium for just about any knife blade. We're dealing with such odd cross sections in knife blades---- getting a blade to EXACTLY the same temp throughout (from the thin tip to the thick ricasso) is a tricky venture. Salt does it extremely well.... whether you're using a deep hardening steel like O1 or just doing the thermal cycles on a W2 blade to prep it for clay hardening. It's the best way to know for sure that your steel has been taken to the temperatures that you were shooting for.

I totally agree that they can be a pain if you just need to do one blade. I have used mine many times for just one....but my preference is to have at least a few blades ready to go in the salt.

I hadn't replied to the op because I have never used a kiln set up like Tim Zowada's. I would like how it would be pretty much silent, I would be concerned about the time it might take to get the salt up to temp.

I just ran my salt bath (a gas fired, blown, vertical forge with a 4" diam X 20" sch 40, 316L salt vessel) and it was at 1500F in 17 minutes. That's half the time of my Paragon.

To the OP, unless you are talking about a very small area, putting ss sheet all around the pots seems like a very big, and unnecessary expense.

And yes, definitely make sure you don't have any moisture on the blades before submerging them in the molten salt. I grew up helping my Dad pour lead fishing sinkers, so the no moisture thing was second nature for me.... but I have to admit that might not be so obvious to someone that hasn't worked with a molten material MUCH hotter than the boiling point of water.


standard.jpg


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These are just a few W2 blades I have done with my salt bath and Park50... no clay. I haven't been able to duplicate this with my other heat sources.

medium800.jpg


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jimmy- Ahhhh, okay, you are in a rented space and want to do everything you can to keep the landlord happy--- I get that.

BTW- I definitely recommend you put tapered rods in the salt after heat-treating, but before the salt cools. I use a piece of 5/8" stainless rod that I tapered on the grinder and bent into an L shape (makes it much easier to work it loose when the salt is at room temp!!!). You can see mine sitting on top of the forge in the second picture.

As far as running stainless in the salt, IMHO the best option is to have another vessel with a higher range salt. The Nu-Sal that I use melts around 1200F or so, and it's happy working range is around 1300-1700F. If you run it much hotter than that, it will look foggy in your shop... but it will not be fog. :eek:

I can't remember what the names are, but there are some other salts from HeatBath that are above the Nu-Sal's working temp range. At least one or two of them is right in the working range of most air hardening cutlery grade steel.
 
Will do Mr. Wheeler. Ron Newton also told me one time to make covers or lids for the pots so when not in use moisture can't condense on the top of my salts. I found the drip tray Mr. Zowada sent me picture of and sent an email to him about his pretty tricked out set. Looks like he also added a secondary containment. Here it is.
http://www.rhinometalworks.com/wip.html
 
"Mr."?!?!? LMAO ;) :)

Ron Newton is an extremely vast source of information wrapped up in one man! It might be the difference in climate between here and the south, but I haven't had any moisture issues with my high temp salt. My low temp salts (I've had a couple different brands) definitely draw a ton of moisture and "creep" while at room temp. That is, they will literally creep up the sides of their vessel and go out around it. I don't even have low temp salt anymore because mine got so bad.

I have seen the Rhino metalworks guys' shop tour before, but hadn't noticed the ss drip tray. BTW- MAN, have they got a lot of really really nice/cool toys in a tight space!!! :eek: That ss tray is slick... if my salt was in a kiln I would absolutely have something like that! Even with a simple 1/2" plate top on mine, it would be nice to protect it like that.

I hope you post pics when you have these all set up! :)
 
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