San Mai questions

josh81

josh81

Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
435
My sister in law wants me to build a knife as a Christmas gift for her husband. I'd like to step up my game a little so I'm thinking about a full tang bowie with some high grade koa. Or something along those lines anyway. There is an ebay seller that sells San mai billets for pretty reasonable prices. I was thinking it would really round out the whole knife if did a San mai blade. Now for the questions.
1. Has anybody used his San mai billets before? I've bought other supplies from him and it's always been a good experience. I've just never bought bar stock from him.
2. I was thinking the blue #2 core would be the way to go for a blade this style?
3. I outsource for all my heat treat. I have no idea if I could find someone to heat treat one San mai blade for me?
Thanks I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way but these are the three that will decide if I proceed or not. I'm a fairly new stock removal guy so this is all a little out of my comfort zone. Thanks a ton!

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It would help if you told us who the seller is.

There are several smiths in The Exchange who make san-mai. Aldo also sells stainless san-mai.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
It would help if you told us who the seller is.

There are several smiths in The Exchange who make san-mai. Aldo also sells stainless san-mai.
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Yes good point I guess I could mention the seller I just didn't know if that was kosher. I didn't realize it was so readily available Stacy. I'll look into the exchange and Aldo before I go the other route. Thank you for pointing that out.

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If you are asking a specific question about a seller or his product, it is fine to link the sale. If it is just a plug for the seller, we frown on that. Sometimes it is a fine line between the two, but usually you are fine to post about something you plan on buying and want others to give their thoughts.
 
I have used a lot of his san mai, i think his name is Arron and he is great to deal with , currently I am using some sumagashi 22 layer billets I will post pics later once they are completed.
 
That is the same steel I use. He is a good seller. I have bought a few bars from him when I was between orders form Dictum ( where he gets his steel, too)

You posted a link to warikomi. If you are not forging it, you will have a problem, as the core steel is only in the lower portion of the billet. The suminagashi and the plain san-mai have the core all the way to the spine.
 
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
That is the same steel I use. He is a good seller. I have bought a few bars from him when I was between orders form Dictum ( where he gets his steel, too)

You posted a link to warikomi. If you are not forging it, you will have a problem, as the core steel is only in the lower portion of the billet. The suminagashi and the plain san-mai have the core all the way to the spine.
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You're right Stacy I just grabbed the first one that came up from the seller. This is the actual billet I'm considering.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/San-Mai-bar-s...-making-blade-billet-/111868005497?nav=SEARCH

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Check makermaterialsupply on IG. I've bought 6 pieces from him for $155 but haven't made a knife from it yet.
 
Jesse Latham said:
Check makermaterialsupply on IG. I've bought 6 pieces from him for $155 but haven't made a knife from it yet.
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It's the same guy. That's actually how I found him. Thank you though!

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Thanks for all the help. I may have found someone to help me out with heat treat. I think the only question remaining is whether or not this is a good choice in steel for a large, moderate use blade?

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That is a good steel for stock removal knives. I use a lot of it.




Very important info for first users of Hitachi San-mai:

Realize that the core is very thin ... 1mm, so the hardened edge will not go very far up the side of the bevel. This is fine, but people often think the hard steel will show half way up the blade side, or expect something that looks like a hamon. If that is what you are expecting, you will be disappointed. The edge is the only hard steel part and only shows along the secondary bevel.

To get the edge centered perfectly, you have to grind the bevels slowly and shoot for just touching the core as you reach the center of the edge. The time for HT is when the bevels just barely meet the core. This will leave the 1mm thick core mostly flat. That is about a .03" edge.

Have your FC tank close by and dip every few passes on the grinder as you get down to the core. Quit when there is a tiny dark line equally on both sides. I say "equally", but you have to accept that it will vary a little. In the final sanding after HT, you try and match up the two sides as close as possible. BTW, you can water ( brine) quench this steel.


To see how close to the edge the junction line will fall, make an expanded cross section sketch. Take a standard 12" wooden ruler. Draw a line 5" tall, and then another line 1/2" away from it. Make a thin rectangle by connecting the lines. It will be 5" by .5". This is your billet ( same 10:1 ratio as the bar you show). Take the ruler and set it on edge and draw the core down the center of the billet. It should be just a bit narrower than the space on each side ( 35%/30%/35%). This is your billet and core. Draw a line from each top corner to the center of the bottom core. This is the bevels. You will see that the junction is about 3/4", or 15% up the side. On a 1.3" high blade, that is about .20" high. So, about 1.1" of soft steel bevel and .2" of hard steel edge bevel (ha).
 
I decided to change plans. I'll save the first san mai experience for a personal knife and not a Christmas gift. I don't want to ruin Christmas lol. I decided to go with cpm 3-v. Ordered from Aldo today. I've never used it either but I think it will be a good match for the blade I have in mind. Thanks for all the help! Even though I'm not using it this time I learned a lot for future use.

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