Sand Pot, could it be a salt replacement.

The gas lifts the sand and causes them to float and vibrating unles in a special shaped container seams to settle the particles. But I have never tried it so I don't know but I'm guessing that would be the result.
 
JTknives said:
I think the only issue with the coil in the bottom with holes is when you shut off the air the sand will run into the holes and fill the tubing.
Click to expand...

put the holes facing down :D

[edit] it was obvious and not the 1st one to have the idea... but, why not let air flow until the sand reaches non fluid characteristics again?


Pablo
 
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Yeah you can do that as well. Just slowly close the air till it settles.
 
Why you need air after placing the knife in? I was think that air is required only sand to become fluidized for easy placing the knife/object inside ? Of course , unless you use some nitrogen , propane , ammonia as Stacy E.Apelt mentioned ?
 
The air (gas) is a must to keep the temp even from the bottom to the top of the pot. With out the gas flowing and the sand flowing/mixing the bottom of the pot will be much hotter then the top.
 
If the bed wasn't fluidized it wouldn't behave as a fluid, and therefore have none of the benefits of convection and the higher heat transfer you get from it.
 
JT, give Brad a call and ask him again about the flow rate. On a small tank it should be a lot less than he is running, but as you said, the fluidizing is what makes it work.

Also, ask what the minimum tank size would be. I think you need sufficient size to allow the sand to act like a fluid. I would guess that 6" is the practical lower size limit.
 
lol. I think the hole facing down has been mentioned like 10
Times but yeah it's a good idea. I will be building a new pot to test this and making
A coil and putting holes in the bottom of the
Coil.

Been doing some reading and I guess a commercial way todo it is by using what looks like mushrooms. The holes are up under the hood and the hood goes down a good
Bit so the
Air has to push down and then comes up around the rim of the cap. For all intents and purposes our pot is micro in siZe compared to industrial fludizing beds.

I think Stacy is right on the money though in needing a larger size. And I think one big reason for needing the larger size is sand volume. In such a small pot when you insert a bar or blade the level comes up quite a bit. But in a larger pot you would not have as drastic of a rise. Also the sand close to the sides
Of the pot seam to have different properties then the middle fluidised section. I don't know the size limit where it's big enough vs to big but that will have to be tested out. But I don't thing the 5-6" diamater is out of the ball park.
 
Like I said before, if you could make say a 8 inch oblong pot work, you would have a winner because then you could put darn near anything in it. You should check out the video that James Helm has on line that shows his modified pottery kiln that he uses to austenize his tomahawks.
JTknives said:
lol. I think the hole facing down has been mentioned like 10
Times but yeah it's a good idea. I will be building a new pot to test this and making
A coil and putting holes in the bottom of the
Coil.

Been doing some reading and I guess a commercial way todo it is by using what looks like mushrooms. The holes are up under the hood and the hood goes down a good
Bit so the
Air has to push down and then comes up around the rim of the cap. For all intents and purposes our pot is micro in siZe compared to industrial fludizing beds.

I think Stacy is right on the money though in needing a larger size. And I think one big reason for needing the larger size is sand volume. In such a small pot when you insert a bar or blade the level comes up quite a bit. But in a larger pot you would not have as drastic of a rise. Also the sand close to the sides
Of the pot seam to have different properties then the middle fluidised section. I don't know the size limit where it's big enough vs to big but that will have to be tested out. But I don't thing the 5-6" diamater is out of the ball park.
Click to expand...
 
Shoot JT, I may have to come visit!

Remember that 5160 I got from you in UT? That big 5160 chopper I started with you has still not been heat treated!

I made a smaller knife and heat treated it in my hibachi and quenched in motorcycle race oil.
 
Got the book in. It looks pretty good, not a lot more info then has already been discussed. Me, my wife and daughter took a trip to Pittsburgh in July to visit Larrin and his family. During the trip we visited Peters HT along with US Steel, Case Cutlery, and a couple of custom makers.

Peters was very impressive, Brad is a real gentleman. It was obvious that they are very organized and professional. Loved the visit. We seen the whole operation along with the fluidized bed furnace.

After we got home, I ordered the book about fluidized bed heat treating. Just came in. After I have a chance to read it I'll let everyone know if there is some thing note worthy.

Pics of the book, Larrin and Brad, and the Peters truck.

Hoss
 

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We look forward to hearing what you find out, Hoss.
DevinT said:
Got the book in. It looks pretty good, not a lot more info then has already been discussed. Me, my wife and daughter took a trip to Pittsburgh in July to visit Larrin and his family. During the trip we visited Peters HT along with US Steel, Case Cutlery, and a couple of custom makers.

Peters was very impressive, Brad is a real gentleman. It was obvious that they are very organized and professional. Loved the visit. We seen the whole operation along with the fluidized bed furnace.

After we got home, I ordered the book about fluidized bed heat treating. Just came in. After I have a chance to read it I'll let everyone know if there is some thing note worthy.

Pics of the book, Larrin and Brad, and the Peters truck.

Hoss
Click to expand...
 
My book has not showed up yet and I think I ordered it a few days befor you. Must take longer to ship to the middle of no where lol
 
Science is awesome. I want one. For swords. :cool:
 
I have been thinking about this technology and it seems almost perfect in simplicity except for one problem and it's the shielding gases.

The air in this system is both the key and the curse. If you could eliminate the oxygen from this system. You would have a simple system that almost entirely eliminates scale.

The problem is that you need the air to liquefy the sand so you can keep temperatures even.

I know you are just now experimenting with this. But perhaps mechanical vibration would be enough to move the sand to keep temperatures constant?

If this works and it's enough to keep the sand moving enough to keep temperatures constant in the tube , you could have an oxygen free system you could run entirely from an electrical outlet with no need for extra gas or compressors.
 
There is still air/oxygen between each grain.
 
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