Sandvik 14C28N fixed blade on the cheaper side?

Not entirely related to this thread but I saw Mora knives were mentioned.
Yesterday I got Mora Companion knife (supposedly Sandvik 12C27) .... 16.5 euros. Nice knife and finish; no complains.
I got it to work today to measure hardness. Here is the result. I'm a little disappointed. I thought those things are harder.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/172R1fat18BiajUwAIP_ukhdqgeendVZT/view?usp=drivesdk

For comparison; last week I got Bahco 2446 from our local shop for less then 10 euros. If I'm correct they are also made of 12C27 steel. Also very nice knife; for me better and more ergonomic handle as Mora Companion. As I understand Bahco suppose to be a cheaper version of Mora.
Anyhow; I also measured the hardness and here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12PNQZolIhiPvN8-ZytcPIn0fWUUhQ_zg/view?usp=drivesdk
 
TheOne45 said:
Not entirely related to this thread but I saw Mora knives were mentioned.
Yesterday I got Mora Companion knife (supposedly Sandvik 12C27) .... 16.5 euros. Nice knife and finish; no complains.
I got it to work today to measure hardness. Here is the result. I'm a little disappointed. I thought those things are harder.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/172R1fat18BiajUwAIP_ukhdqgeendVZT/view?usp=drivesdk

For comparison; last week I got Bahco 2446 from our local shop for less then 10 euros. If I'm correct they are also made of 12C27 steel. Also very nice knife; for me better and more ergonomic handle as Mora Companion. As I understand Bahco suppose to be a cheaper version of Mora.
Anyhow; I also measured the hardness and here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12PNQZolIhiPvN8-ZytcPIn0fWUUhQ_zg/view?usp=drivesdk
Click to expand...

That isn't a surprising value. Lots of inexpensive knives are run in the 55-57 range, and not just from China. Think of all the slip joints, the fixed blades at Walmart, etc... Some were probably softer than that.

Years ago when I got worse results with a file test kit on a Stainless Companion, someone did suggest to me that Moras were clad in softer steel and harder at their core. I don't know if there is any truth to that.
 
Chronovore said:
Years ago when I got worse results with a file test kit on a Stainless Companion, someone did suggest to me that Moras were clad in softer steel and harder at their core. I don't know if there is any truth to that.
Click to expand...

Mora used to offer laminated blades with a core of harder steel. I believe both the core and cladding were carbon steels, just different types. I snagged a No.1 blank with laminated steel and haven't done anything with it yet, so can't confirm if all layers are carbon. Some of their woodworking knives are still offered in laminated steel.
 
Chronovore said:
That isn't a surprising value. Lots of inexpensive knives are run in the 55-57 range, and not just from China. Think of all the slip joints, the fixed blades at Walmart, etc... Some were probably softer than that.
Click to expand...
For cheap Walmart and gas station knives that's a fair hardness if we consider they are usually using (cheaper) steel with lower carbon content.
I think they also put ''user factor'' in the equation …. average user does all sort of things with those knives so I think it's safer to run them lower in hardness….so the blade roll or bend when abused and not break and spit metal chips around. I think those SAK knives are also somewhere at 56HRc or so. I guess the manufacturer must have a valid reason for that.

Yes; Mora is advertising hardness of 56-58HRc for their 12C27 blades so my Mora is so to speak somewhere in specs with 55.7HR.
On the other hand my Bahco made of the same steel is 58.3HRc. As I understand Bacho suppose to be cheaper and lower version of Mora but they seems to do better job with hardening. Yesterday I forgot to mention….when I measured my Bacho hardness I first checked the machine with a 60.1HRc lab sample and it measured 59.6HRc so the machine was ''off'' by 0.5HRc. So, if you add 0.5HRc to 58.3HRc my Bacho has a hardness of 58.8HRc and this is a fair value for my standards. This is 3HRc harder as my sample of Mora and this is not so small difference regarding edge retention.
But at the end of the day; those are cheap knives so….fair enough.
 
I personally have a bit of a LOVE/HATE relationship with SAK knives because the blades are so soft. Something that dulls on a few bagels and kaiser rolls is too darn soft.

I get that running them soft is probably best for their primary consumer base to reduce litigation and bad press from idiots hurting themselves with bad cutting techniques. Myself, I am still a bit miffed I can't buy a blade at a reasonable cost to swap into a SAK for normal use in my world.

Thanks to Rough Rider, D2 in traditional style slip-joints seems to be fairly mainstream in non-premium knives which is a huge thing to me with those D2 carbides giving a good long lasting edge at whatever hardness they run them at. Then you have companies like Lionsteel out of Italy with $100~$200 slip-joints that are super nice.

If Victorinox, Buck, or Case would run 14C28N at good hardness in a slip-joint, I'd be up for a ~$100 spend. Until then, something from Rosecraft is probably my best option.
 
Sid Post said:
If Victorinox, Buck, or Case would run 14C28N at good hardness in a slip-joint, I'd be up for a ~$100 spend.
Click to expand...
Well, I think at least with Victorinox you are absolutely out of luck because they will stick to their tradition like a tick to dogs ass. They don't like changes... at least not steel changes and thats end if the story.

Sid Post said:
Thanks to Rough Rider, D2 in traditional style slip-joints seems to be fairly mainstream in non-premium knives which is a huge thing to me with those D2 carbides giving a good long lasting edge at whatever hardness they run them at.
Click to expand...
I like D2 steel. Easy to grind and also easy to sharpen at least from my side.
All my EDC knives are D2 and my other folding knives are 12C27 except one carbon Opinel. I also stil use D2 steel at my work for some tooling.

Sid Post said:
I personally have a bit of a LOVE/HATE relationship with SAK knives because the blades are so soft. Something that dulls on a few bagels and kaiser rolls is too darn soft.
Click to expand...
It's somehow tricky to find a proper answer to this statement.
I personaly don't like SAKs because they are loaded with all kind of stuff I don't need or want on my knife. All I need is a blade and a handle. The other thing is soft Victorinox steel.
However, you may find this video interesting....$1 kitchen knife at 51.5HRc ... after 1/2 hour of cutting and whittling piece of pine wood stil cutting paper. Amazing for such a soft blade.
I haven't measured any SAK hardness but as far as I could find on the net those SAKs are in the range of 56HRc or so.
Your SAK should hold the edge better as this cheap soft knife from the video.

 
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TheOne45 said:
Well, I think at least with Victorinox you are absolutely out of luck because they will stick to their tradition like a tick to dogs ass. They don't like changes... at least not steel changes and thats end if the story.


It's somehow tricky to find a proper answer to this statement.
I personaly don't like SAKs because they are loaded with all kind of stuff I don't need or want on my knife. All I need is a blade and a handle. The other thing is soft Victorinox steel.
However, you may find this video interesting....$1 kitchen knife at 51.5HRc ... after 1/2 hour of cutting and whittling piece of pine wood stil cutting paper. Amazing for such a soft blade.
I haven't measured any SAK hardness but as far as I could find on the net those SAKs are in the range of 56HRc or so.
Your SAK should hold the edge better as this cheap soft knife from the video.
Click to expand...

With SAK's, you can buy single layer models with just a blade if you want. Personally, a SAK without some additional features loses its appeal, for me at least. Having the other tools makes it more useful just like a multitool setup like pliers oriented models. While I have Multi-tools, the lower bulk of a SAK means I am more apt to have it when I need a screwdriver, can opener, etc.
 
Sid Post said:
I am looking for a "Morakniv" type of fixed blade knife with with Sandvik 14C28N blade steel in the 3.5"~5" blade length with a drop or spear point that is relatively thin but, sturdy enough for light camp chores and kitchen duty. Maybe even an overgrown kitchen paring knife would be an acceptable option.

What is out there that won't break the bank? The Garberg is too much knife FWIW! The Garberg is good though! ;)

TIA,
Sid
Click to expand...
What's wrong with a Companion or a Companion HD?
 
Sid Post said:
I am looking for a "Morakniv" type of fixed blade knife with with Sandvik 14C28N blade steel in the 3.5"~5" blade length with a drop or spear point that is relatively thin but, sturdy enough for light camp chores and kitchen duty.
Click to expand...
I wonfer how hard it would be to just go to some internet store, list fixed blade knives and add filter 'only show 14c28n steel knives'. Then list them by price.
I guess lot easies and sure faster then hanging here waiting for the answer you are not satisfied with.

Here you go. Now just pick the knife you like and find a store close to you:
 
I really enjoy my stainless Garberg. It’s my only Mora and one of my better small knives.
 
TheOne45 said:
I wonfer how hard it would be to just go to some internet store, list fixed blade knives and add filter 'only show 14c28n steel knives'. Then list them by price.
I guess lot easies and sure faster then hanging here waiting for the answer you are not satisfied with.

Here you go. Now just pick the knife you like and find a store close to you:
Click to expand...

Whatever random store you pick may or may not have the knife you want. And yes, Lamnia is one I looked at. In fact, I ordered a lot of my knives there too plus a few axes.
 
Sid Post said:
Whatever random store you pick may or may not have the knife you want.
Click to expand...
True, but if you visit a few stores around the world you will find which knives are available in 14c28n steel. Right?
Make a list then pick the knife you like and then find where you can buy this knife.
By the way, I'm tempted to order Ruike 118 from our local store.

You forgot to define "on the cheaper side".
 
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