SAR Pack Question

EmsRescueGuy

EmsRescueGuy

Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
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I am a member of a rescue squad in a pretty suburban area, we are bordered by 2 small cities with a few wooded areas, some parts of college campuses and farms sprinkled here and there.

My squad is currently building up its SAR/water rescue program, Most of our searches will be in places like Large parks or in various suburban areas. we may occasionally assist in a woodland search but that would be the exception more than the rule.

We are looking to equip packs for the team. I see tham as part SAR part mass incident packs designed to let members operate as responders without the need to be tied to a base or vehicle for every little thing.

The contents would include

A basic First aid/ trauma kit
small PSk (fire starter, chord, trash bags etc)
Emergency blanket (large tarp type)
Rain jacket or pocho
extra hat
eye protection
basic tools (srew driver, pliers)
1 primary flashlight (2c or larger)
1 back up flashlight (2aaa or 2aa)
Saftey vest
whistle, mirror, glow sticks etc
2-3 liters water
Nutrition bars or MRE
20-30 ft 1" webing
2 Prusic slings
Compass
Flagging tape
Pad and pencil

I would like the pack to be between 1,000-2,000 cu in
Hydration bladder compatible
And be of a modular or easily expandable design for differnt operations

I have found two designs I am debating and am open to other suggestions.

The Camelback H.a.w.g. www.imsplus.com

And The True North Fireball www.truenorthgear.com

Thanks in advance for your Help
 
I probably won't be the last person to recommend Maxpedition. But, I highly suggest you take a look at them. I have a Condor, but it sounds like the Pygmy Falcon more meets your needs.

Let us know what you end up using.
 
I don't own one yet, but the word I get from others, and the research I have been doing myself, points to www.kifaru.net as the best on the market. I will be ordering one this week. They fit every one of your criteria, are heavier built than the ones you mention, and, with their modular pockets and accessories, are more easily expandable than anything else that I have found on the market. Expensive, but you get what you pay for.
 
This is a tough question.

A lot depends on how far you will be from support vehicles and for how long.

I think you will be hard pressed to fit all the gear you need in a 2000 cu in.
pack.

From experience I can suggest going larger than you need and be able to add mission specific gear when needed, seen it too many times packs too small.

AS was said Kifaru is a great product but very expensive. Blackhawk makes some good gear at a lower price and is modular as well. EMS type stores have decent products at good prices. Get the best you can afford that fits the worst case mission you can think of.

I would suggest a decent headlamp (hands free is the oder of the day) for your ops like the "Princeton Tec Apex" and a decent backup. I use the PC tec Surge with great results. BOth are great lights and take AA bateries which is nice as you only have to stock one size. Flashlights have come a long way and the above 2 are brighter than any c cell or Dcell for that matter and weigh a lot less, water and impact proof.

Hands free radio harnesses for comms is a godsend. Some you can get strap to your packs shoulder straps for easy access. this is what we use and love http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?dept_id=1211 .

I would think you may need helmets as well, make sure they are hedlamp compatible.

Dont forget at least N95 masks or better and heavy urban rescue gloves.

Clearly define your groups intentions with high viz lettering and colors. Try to keep everything uniform as s hit happens and you can identify your people and others can identify you in a crisis situation.

I would suggest some authentic military MRE's that can be given out when needed as some taskings can be 12-24hrs from support when you least expect it.

The big thing is reliable comms and lots of spare charged batteries as YOUR peoples safety comes first. You will probably get spit up to some extent and tasked with other outfits so its important to be self reliant.

Your list is a good basic list. I would add hand sanitizer and water sealed butt wipes/tp as well as some 550 parachord about 100 feet worth.

Good on you for preparing your group before its needed ;)

Skam
 
What you have is a good start. I would check out what is commonly refered to as a 48 hour pack. I have included the NASAR pdf for SAR TECHS. The whole document is worth looking over but starting on page 26 is what you are probably looking for. I have seen some others but like I have said this is a good start. You will probably want to talior some of it for your specific needs. To me it makes some difference what your team needs to do. A three man hasty team needs to be better equiped than a 16 man team for line searches in many cases. The three man team has to have one with communications equipment, another has medical equipment and the other is the team leader/tracker and all of them have to be cross trained. Again, all of this needs to be thought out for your area and needs.

NASAR SAR TECH PDF

Hope this helps,
KR
 
Thanks for the suggestions SO Far :thumbup:

KR1 I am basing My kit off of the Nasar Urban Rescue pack not the 24 Hour pack wilderness defined on theur website. But thank you for that link as it will actually help me with defining the team and members. :)

Skammer I really like your suggestions, Helmets are an available item to us but right now are limited to fire/rescue helmets, I am trying to get rescue specific helmets but budgets dont always agree with desires

I agree with head lamps as well and I use one for wilderness SAR myself( priceton tech eos) I have a few more powerfull models in mind for the team

I cant believe I forgot N95s :eek: I probably would have remembered them when actualy assembling the kits but thanks anyway.

Our current Squad coats are Osha yellow with feflective lettering. We also have Turn outs that are equally HI Viz. I am including a saftey vest that will be lettered in each kit to wear in hot wether or over civies, and I am also working on neon green Tshirts for the team members which would diferentiate them from the rest of the EMS Group.



I don't honestly see many scenarios Where vehicle support will be far away, but I there are areas where a searcher may have to begin aid, until support can arive, and where an individual will be assigned to search an area for a few hours. If a rescuer has to leave the feild for. Hydration extra batteries, food etc. it makes the search that much less effective.


It shoud go without saying that besides the gear we are investing in training and practice for all members of the team.
 
Hi EmsRescueGuy,

Glad that was of some help. I also forgot to mention this one also. I hope you find this informative. It is one of the few federal documents I thought was worth anything useful. It lists the minimum capabilities of all different types of teams. I consider it a very good document that is well thought out. Who would have guessed, from a federal agency? Of course it was put together by FEMA who was actually a fairly good agency with some decent thinkers in it before it was raped by homeland security.


ESF-9

KR
 
I have a H.A.W.G. and I find that when the bladder is completely full, it subtracts from the space in the main compartment. Other than that it is a great pack and has been very durable, but I don't think that you'd get everything you noted into it. I'd also add a camera to the list, something small, durable and uncomplicated.
 
EMS,

Is this gear up for EMT rescue or fire?

If it is for EMT you and your people will be split up trust me. When on a large disaster scene a call will come in for an EMT to accompany rescue crews to an injury while the rest of your crew is busy doing other things.
You are now spit up. Nothing wrong with this just need to be preparred and aware is all.

Budgets dont even get me started grrr. Lightweight climbing helmets are the bomb I use the following in orange with rescue retro reflected on the sides.
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/half_dome.php

Oh, and try and get some lightweight synthetic wicking colored shirts for when you are sweating your arses off in the heat. ;)

Skam
 
Scammer This Is Mainly for EMTs I have been whitness to how they are often split which is part of the reason for the packs, I have been on scenes with fire crews while the rest of my crew does transport or triage or rehab or whatever . I ususally carry a small kit of my own, but these would be more comprehensive.

We are also trained or training as SAR techs so So we may be search teams as well, I have a full wilderness pack set up but In NJ the need for that is the exception rather than the rule

I also like those helmets and the price we have been looking as petzel and Star as well as some others.


jthomas Thanks for the input, I am adding disposable cameras to the list, I usually carry my digital everywhere so i haddnt even thought of it. :)


KR1: I have been looking for this Document for The sogs we are developing.
 
I have the other two packs from Cheaper Than Dirt; the Level III in OD and the MOLLE Assault Backpack in tan. Both appear well-made and water-resistant, but after using the Level III pack extensively for work and the MOLLE pack for a Vegas trip and my gear bag, here's my thoughts:

Level III Assault Pack: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/PACK125-1192-1964.htmlIt looks like a stitch-for-stitch copy of the Maxpedition Falcon, and since the Maxpedition pack isn't made in the US of A, I didn't see a reason to pay the extra $60 or so; reviews on the CTD site, however, indicate that the Maxpedition bags may be better. It seems small at first, but actually is perfect for hauling gear to work everyday; the pockets make it ideal for storing items by catagory, i.e., flashlights & knives in the top pockets, clothing and larger gear on the inside, etc. Well, here's what I didn't like... first, for a pack with MOLLE attachments sewn on, there isn't a lot of places to put stuff. Chalk it up to the size of the bag. Second, the MOLLE webbing doesn't look like it's sewn on that well... maybe if you stick something heavy on there, it would fail. Third, the shoulder straps are adjustable, and mounted by a plastic piece-- well, guess what, that piece broke on me. I took one of the D-rings off from the strap and mounted it in its place, and have not had problems since. Still, you'd expect it to be half-decent outta the box. Bottom line, don't bother if it's for heavy use unless you're packing a light load. Clothing or first aid supplies should be fine. Don't bother carrying water or heavy tools.

MOLLE Assault Backpack: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MOLLE125-41518-1964.htmlAgain, another promising pack... until you try to use it for heavy loads. I used this to hold my pillow and blanket when I was on midnights as well as my other work gear, and it did fine. The true test was when I went to Vegas last year, back when you were allowed to carry water on a plane. I kept several bottles of water as well as food and underwear, minor first aid kit, and jacket to last for the layover. The zippers started to split from the load, and although they were easy to fix, it was a pain to have to keep resetting them all the time. You couldn't pack anything bulky in there and expect it to hold. The next issue was the stitching, which would fray and come apart. I had the lower compartment start to seperate at the corner, and one of the padding panels started to seperate at the edge. I fixed it with Shoe-Goo, and the bag is being used to hold all my B.O.B. gear until I find something better. Like the Level III pack, it would do fine holding lightweight stuff like vacuum-sealed first-aid supplies and clothing (no canned food, water, or IV bags...).
 
Just food for thought.
Years ago I assisted in a back country rescue of a downed helo. Heavy over head jungle, hot weather. We Had to hiked in. Most of the vic's survived but lot of blood loss and heat related injuries. I saw my partner binding a scalp wound while the Vic was drinking from his Camel-back straw. Blood all over the Camel-back. I was helping an other vic and give him my canteen let him keep it too. I personally will never use a camel back rig. There OK, but I've had to share to much and don't care for backwashed blood.
 
Inferno said:
I have the other two packs from Cheaper Than Dirt; the Level III in OD and the MOLLE Assault Backpack in tan. Both appear well-made and water-resistant, but after using the Level III pack extensively for work and the MOLLE pack for a Vegas trip and my gear bag, here's my thoughts:

Level III Assault Pack: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/PACK125-1192-1964.htmlIt looks like a stitch-for-stitch copy of the Maxpedition Falcon, and since the Maxpedition pack isn't made in the US of A, I didn't see a reason to pay the extra $60 or so; reviews on the CTD site, however, indicate that the Maxpedition bags may be better. ..... Well, here's what I didn't like... first, for a pack with MOLLE attachments sewn on, there isn't a lot of places to put stuff. Chalk it up to the size of the bag. Second, the MOLLE webbing doesn't look like it's sewn on that well... maybe if you stick something heavy on there, it would fail. Third, the shoulder straps are adjustable, and mounted by a plastic piece-- well, guess what, that piece broke on me. ... Bottom line, don't bother if it's for heavy use unless you're packing a light load. Clothing or first aid supplies should be fine. Don't bother carrying water or heavy tools.
Click to expand...

I, too, picked up one of the "Level III's" just to see what it would be like and not spend the extra $60 for the Max. version... Both of the plastic sliders on the shoulder straps broke - I had a pack repair place sew on metal sliders.. Works great now. And since the straps are adjustable, I can either use it while cycling or hiking. mostly, though, I just use it to and from work as I have a childish fondness for LOTS OF POCKETS!!! LOL!!! :D Also, IIRC, the newer version has different shoulder straps.. but I don't remeber if that's Maxpedition's newer version or Cheaperthandirts version, so if you want the cheap one, be prepared to modify it!

Anyway, the pack I linked to I also got just to see what it was like... So far, it's very comfortable, can carry a lot and, SO FAR, has held up to a lot of weight... I also carry it when I walk to the grocerystore - I've carried 40+ lb. loads several times and it's about two miles from the store home... So far, i actually like it. It also has a detachable, very sturdy, waistbelt... It's definitely worth the price, unless it starts to fall apart and I need to get it repaired. Still a good bag to keep handy...
 
bikermikearchery said:
I personally will never use a camel back rig. There OK, but I've had to share to much and don't care for backwashed blood.
Click to expand...


It's real easy to blow into the bladder and then squeeze the bite valve to fill a cup, or directly into someones mouth with no backwash.
 
bikermikearchery said:
Just food for thought.
Years ago I assisted in a back country rescue of a downed helo. Heavy over head jungle, hot weather. We Had to hiked in. Most of the vic's survived but lot of blood loss and heat related injuries. I saw my partner binding a scalp wound while the Vic was drinking from his Camel-back straw. Blood all over the Camel-back. I was helping an other vic and give him my canteen let him keep it too. I personally will never use a camel back rig. There OK, but I've had to share to much and don't care for backwashed blood.
Click to expand...

I have thought of this as well as the Idea of mixing gatorade or other items into water in the feild, for these and other reasons a 1 liter malgene with cup are part of my kit.

Joeshredd and Inferno: While I would buy these packs for myself for recreation or extra gear I do hesitate to purchase them for an organization wide issue, I have had problems in the past with knock offs from Cheaper than Dirt and Sportsmansguide. While the packs in general are okay, some modification is almost always necissary. If its avoidable I would rather not force members to modify their packs just to keep them working.

The origional companies paid alot of money to designers to come up with these packs for specific reasons, that is why they cost more. anyone can copy a design physically but to truly make an excelent product you have to start from the ground up and truly understand who and what you are designing a pack for.
 
briangandrews said:
I probably won't be the last person to recommend Maxpedition. But, I highly suggest you take a look at them. I have a Condor, but it sounds like the Pygmy Falcon more meets your needs.

Let us know what you end up using.
Click to expand...

Diddnt want you to think I was ignoring Your suggestion, I am looking at these packs as well as some of the smaller maxpedition packs for first aid kits. The lack of hydration bladder compatability is a minus for this pack in my eyes.

I am trying to get funding to buy one or two different styles and try them out on during some upcomming drills.
 
My unit uses the 24 hour pack and the 48 hour pack system. Is this an option for you?
 
How about an LA Rescue Daypack? 1579.5 ci, hydration bladder compatible, and it has a lifetime warranty against defects and workmanship. They are made in the US, and if need be, they can be sent to the manufacturer for repairs at a minimal cost.

http://www.buyemp.com/product/1150302.html

Our fire department used a number of LA Rescue gear bags, including a few Daypacks, for our Special Services/Rope Rescue team. They're great bags. Not the coolest looking or most 'tacticool,' but they are built well and do the job.
 
In the last 5 years, I have gone through 4 packs..

Although it sounds like our mission profiles are a little different, I really recommend going with the vest option. It tends to seperate things out a bit, rather than have them stacked on top of each other.

The pockets front and back allow you to spread the weight out a bit, which saves the back!

Finally, the vest is easily scalable. If you need to add stuff for a longer/more serious mission, you can. AT the same time, if you need to scale back what you are carrying, it is just as easy!

ALL THAT being said, I DON'T recommend MOLLE gear. I have found that the pouches seem to "hang" and always feel like they are about to fall off, unless you shell out $500-$600 for 'real' or quality gear.

SO, I found these:
http://www.specialforces.com/store/catalog/product_26225_Search_and_Rescue_Vest.html

They are designed for SAR, have tons of room, and are da BOMB!

I have used one for about the last 4 months from rescues in the mountains, to body recoveries in the river, to alzheimers searches in the city.. Very Nice!
 
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