Sarkis, scabbard makers, leather workers. Lend me your ears! Get an AK Bowie free.

Bill Martino

Bill Martino

Joined
Mar 5, 1999
Messages
34,096
I need a good scabbard design for the AK Bowie. Something that matches the size and weight of the knife which is to the best of my knowledge the biggest Bowie type knife on the market. We like strong!

For the best design to be voted upon by the forumites (the customer and forumite always know best) we will send an AK Bowie free of charge.

Designs please.

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
My suggestion is a simple pouch sheath wet form fitted to the Bowie and also having an integral belt loop. Leather used would be 1/4 or more thick. Stitching would be double stitch. For a knife this big, I think this would be most efficient, ergonomic, and easiest for the sarkis to do. It would also let prospective customers impress whatever designs they wish to have on this sheath.

My second suggestion is to have Terry Sisco do up something.

Harry

 
Couple of ideas.

1) keep the basic shape and design the same
....But ad the catches that the hanuman has on it (for sash carry)

2) instead of a leather keeper, why not a hook and eye catch to repalce the keeper.

3) Use the black leather.

That is my two cents.
 

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys!
I think I'd go for the all leather heavy duty style sheath with double retaining straps, maybe add a leather strip for securing the bottom of the sheath to the leg.
Something along the lines of a Randall style
sheath. Stamp the sheath H.I. to top it off, and do it all in black with brass snaps on the retaining straps.
I even have all the supplies ready to go.
Take it easy.
Terry
 
Hi All,
Problem #1: The thing is just too heavy for a leather only sheath. It still needs the wood core. The back hide from a bull would work. but there is a problem with supply and workability.

Problem #2: Support. The design of the knife doesnt lend itself to the standard frog design. The basic lace-on super frog with a shortened loop (high ride) would support the knife better.

Problem #3: Comfort with the high-ride with the usual pointy end with a brass chape has to go. Needed is a round or square end sans chape.

Problem #4: retention. Remember we're working with people from a very different tridition than ours: The hardware must be locally produced. So snaps and velcro stuff is out. a hook and ring affair would work.***

*** Think of a dead bolt, and a standared keeper with a strap that wraps around the knife handle with a snap or velcro.

Now instead of the female snap think of a flattened ring out of sheet stock rivited to the strap. On the male side: think of a flattened "J" with a point, sort of like a fish hook with a barb only flatter.

Now pushed through the ring with pressure applied toward the handle of the knife would allow just enough clearance for the "barb" to pass through, but when the pressure was released the natural tendency to push out would lock the keeper with out jamming. To remove the knife....push in and back to open.

Years back my Grand dad used this sort of arrangement on some of our horses' harnesses to be able to change teams quickly with gloves on and not have to fumble with buckles.
Dan
 
This is getting better all the time.

Terry, Dan is an old timer. What do you think of his ideas? And, more importantly, any problem in doing them. I do like the notion of a sturdy wood core.

Keep on it.

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
What about a kydex core? I've seen some combo leather/kydex sheaths that not only looked pretty good, but offered great protection safety wise.... this would only be feasible if Terry gets the nod.

Harry

[This message has been edited by Kozak (edited 06-02-2000).]
 
I agree that a knife as big and heavy as the AK Bowie needs a solid sheath. Leather on its own isn't enough

I also feel that it's desirable to keep the design as simple as possible.

The way I make my sheaths & scabbards is, of necessity, simple and idiotproof (otherwise I couldn't do it...) I don't know if this technique is relevant to this discussion (tho' I've given the dimensions appropriate for an AK Bowie); but in any case, some people might find it interestung if they fancy trying their hand at scabbard-making.

Equipment needed; a small bandsaw (mine's a little $100 Chinese effort); pin hammer; panel pins; knife; needle & thread (optional); epoxy or cyano glue

Materials; either - 1.25" board, to size; or
- 3/4" board and 1/4" ply

(I use a cheap, sturdy man-made board called MDF, made from reconstituted sawdust. I scrounge offcuts from a local joiners' shop, so it doesn't cost anything. I've also used both softwood and hardwood board; the method's the same)


Use the knife as a template to draw the shape of the blade onto the board. Allow a 1/4" margin all round.

If using 1" board; saw out the shape, then saw the resulting piece lengthways to produce 3 'slices'; two a quarter inch thick, one 3/4" thick. The quarter-inch slices are the top and bottom of the sheath.

Lay the knife on the 3/4" slice and draw round it. Bandsaw along this line to cut off the 'rind'; it should be 1/4" wide by 3/4" thick, with a blade-shaped hole in the middle (for concave blades, make allowance so the widest part of the blade can be easily drawn out)

Stack the 3 layers - top face, 3/4" cut-out 'core' and bottom face - and pin all round to nail all 3 back together.

If you want to skip the lengthways-sawing part, use 3/4" board for the core and use 1/4" ply for the top & bottom face.

Rasp, file & sand all faces smooth

You now have a wooden 'case' that should just about retain the blade when held upside down, but still permit it to be drawn easily.

Cut out leather pieces to cover the case. Either stitch them together to form the cover, or glue them onto the wood.

From the same leather, make a HI-style frog and slide the wooden sheath into it.

For extra security, rivet to the top of the frog a retaining strap closed with either a buckle or poppers.

It takes me about 40 minutes to do the woodworking for a sword-length scabbard; the other day I made a katar-size scabbard, and I think it took me 20 minutes. Cutting and stitching the leatherwork takes about 45 minutes.

So far, the sheaths & scabbards I've made this way have proved to be pretty tough and durable, and the knife/sword stays in them...
 

Bill,
The wood core is no problem. Dans idea would work but it sounds like it has quite a few small pieces. We could use a brass stud attached to the sheath under the leather cover, then put a loop or slot in the retaining strap that slides over the stud to secure the knife. I've seen a old quick draw khukuri sheath with this setup and it works fine.
The wood core can be pointed, rounded,or square whatever is wanted. The frog should be no problem either,it just needs a little modification. I've made a few sheaths that ride low on the belt and high on the belt. the frog can be made to ride either way and still support the heavy bowie.
Take it easy.
Terry
 
Boys, what do you think of this idea? I'll send Terry an AK Bowie. He makes a scabbard for it and sends the scabbard back to me and keeps the AK to do with whatever he wants.

I'll put the scabbard here on the forum so we can all discuss any flaws we might think we see. If we see anything serious we will send the scabbard back to Terry for revision. When he gets the revision completed we will send the scabbard to the sarkis and tell them to make all future AK scabbards "like this."
If the scabbard is okay first shot we will send it over with same story.

Thoughts, comments, advice, criticism?

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
I second the motion!
wink.gif


Harry
 
Hi All,
First to Terry... We're talking two pieces plus rivits.

Bill,
I thought that you were looking for an idea that the Sarkis would/could be making. If you're going to do it here it's another matter altogether.
Dan
 
Dan, I am looking for the idea or design but I knew in the end I would have to have a prototype made to send to the sarkis. If we can skip the design and get right to the prototype I am all for it because I am at a standstill with the Bowies until we can get a scabbard that is decent. As it stands I would just as soon sell the knife without a scabbard at a reduced price and let the customer contract his own. I hate the damned scabbard as it is. If you want to try a prototype I have two AK Bowies left in stock and I'll send you one so you can offer up a prototype, too.

Let me know.

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 

Dan,
The retaining strap I was talking about uses only one piece, the brass stud. The sarkis already have experience making these on the B.A.S. frogs. It will be nothing new to them. They already know how to make them.
I'm making a leather over wood sheath,with a leather frog. All the material will be the same as what the sarkis use, there will be nothing about the sheath the sarkis can't reproduce at Bir Gorkha.
Terry
 
I hope you're right, Terry, but I've used the brass stud business before and every time I've wound up stretching or tearing the hole out. If the leather is thick enough not to stretch or tear, then it's too stiff to use that system. Weather conditions play an important role in this type of keeper as well, especially where it's wet or very dry. That's one reason I never suggested it, plus we're talking about a lot of weight pulling against that little hole in the liather. But hay, if you can make it work, more power to you.
Dan
 
Bill,
I'll make a proto type for you and you don't have to send me one of the knives, just give me the dementions of the blade and the diameter of the handle. Things are a little slow at work for the moment, so I'll have time to make up the hardware. I'll get some leather and do a work up, but I'll use cheap stuff, and they can figure it out themselves to use the better leather. I'm much better at pounding steel than I am at making cloths, but I can do it.
Dan
 
Never make a post when you are upset.

I was looking at the scabbards on the two BirGorkha Bowies I have in stock and the more I looked the more disgusted I got. When I got myself good and upset I made the original post in this thread without thinking it through.

I really have to have a prototype and that's what I should have asked for -- print, sketch, description is just not going to work. Second, the sarkis and staff of BirGorkha are going to have to be the ones to judge which sheath will work and which won't simply because we know what material and supplies are available to BirGorkha and we know what can and can't be done with the tools and skills that are available to us.

Having said that, I know that Dan is an old shop hand and has been playing with knives and scabbards for half a century -- he does good work. Terry is just getting started but does good work which I have seen in person. I have confidence that both can produce a scabbard that will work and look good. And, we have an offer of a third prototype from an old pal and customer who is as veteran in this forum: Brian Caffrey. I have seen some pix of Brians' work and I am confident that he, too, can produce a functional and attractive scabbard.

So three is enough. Let's call it quits right here. I'll send the two Bowies out today or Monday to Terry and Dan. I'll ask Terry to send his on to Brian as soon as he can. When the three prototypes come in I will send all three to BirGorkha with my own recommendations and the Sarkis, Pala and Gelbu will make the final decision.

That's it. Now it is a waiting game. Whichever design is used for future scabbards at BirGorka will rate a BirGorkha AK Bowie at no charge for its maker. The other two will receive a healthy credit toward their next purchase -- or get a free blem or village model.

At BirGorkha we may not pay a lot but nobody works for nothing.

Many thanks for great help and interest. Stay tuned. I have a feeling we are going to see three great scabbards!



------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
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