SAS Pattern?

T

T. Ellis

Joined
Sep 11, 2001
Messages
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Hi all, this is my first post on this excellent forum. My name is Taylor Ellis, and I live in Broome, Western Australia. I'm a semi-frequent poster on SwordForum, and long time lurker at NetSword. I have an avid interest in European swordsmanship, especially the works of Talhoffer, Silver and Dei Liberi.

Anyway, on to my first question. :)

I was wondering, is there an official patterned knife used by the SAS (Australian or British)? Is it the FS Commando or the later, apparently improved AF Commando? Or is it something completely different?
Does anyone have any opinions on these patterns (relating to practical use of course)?

Thanks for your time!
 
Hello and welcome to the Forums.

At this time there is no offical dagger issued to the UK SAS. Any knife use is a personal choice item.

Regards,

Ed
 
My old TKS instructor and friend was in the SAS in the '70s. They used whatever worked. In the jungle it was parangs, khukuris and the jungle knife issued to them that they hated. I believe they used kabars too. As said before, it is a matter of personal choice, mostly. I believe they still get you what you need when going in the jungle.

I read part of a SAS book a while ago and there were ill comments made towards knives. It said something like, "You won't see combat knives hanging off of the kit of an SAS soldier. If you have to get that close, your mission is over." This is a paraphrase, but the idea is that you shoot bad guys, and if you have to get close to them and use a knife, you've messed up.
 
In the book <i>Bravo Two Zero</i> by Andy McNab (former SAS), he told how one of his soldiers was preparing to use his M16 bayonet to kill two Iraquis.
 
Thanks for the welcome and the replies.
Does anybody have any thoughts on the handling and performance qualitites of these two knives?
Thanks again.
 
The FS has a handle that is too small for most, a tip that's too thin and often breaks and a crap sheath. It is primarily a weapon biased toward stabbing techniques in design and may have been used a such by Commandos in WWII or since. This is pretty much what I have picked up of other peoples opinions.

The FA looks a bit sturdier in the tip area with a more curved blade slightly better suited for utility. I am not aware of an association with the SAS for this design.

From what I gather, the primary reason for knife carry by modern day Special Forces is utility which is why most 'Combat' knives that they favour tend to be of the single edged, fairly stout variety, whereas a 'fighting' knife would be double edged and lighter in weight. If I were a soldier out of ammo, I would much rather use a fixed bayonet or even just the empty rifle than an FS or the like.

Hope this helps. Also hope you're not planning on silently despatching any sentries.
 
The M7 Bayonett isn't "much" of a knife. it has a narrow blade that is saber ground, so the edge geometry is for thrusting, not shelter building. It is of carbon steel. The "KABAR" (USMC fighting/utility is a better term, really) is a better field knife. It too has a relatively short grind line, but it is a tough geometry. A good compromise between fighting and utility, which si what it was designed for.

The Fairbairn/Sykes dagger was often (and designed to be) sewn into one's uniform. You then sneak up to a Nazi with dagger drawn and cut the throat, thrust down in the hollow adjacent to the clavicle, through the proper ribs, etc. It is a specialized tool that breaks when thrown or used to open bottles of beer.

The Applegate/Fairbairn is a tougher version of the F/S dagger, and better for "knfie fighting" than the former knife.

The techniques for sentry removal lend themselves to use with lots of diferent knife patterns out there. I have an article by a U.S. officer who used a khukuri for sentry removal in the Viernam conflict.

Look at Strider knives, often the #1 choice for front line American troops. These are designed as hard core tools. You sure can fight with them, but they are designed with utility very much in mind. Soldiers open crates, open rations and cut rope more than they take out sentries. I bet that SAS personnel use tool like fixed blades when they carry them, not really "pure" fighters. I still have an impression that the British Military isn't really a knife using military, unlike the US military. Heck, the US is evaluating a tomahawk right now from ATC and if it is accepted, it will become STANDARD issue to troops! Cool eh!
 
Crayola,

You are correct the UK military are not big into knives in the same way as the US. You will rarely if ever see a UK soldier with a large knife in a leg type sheath.

Most guys will have some form of multi-tool - Gerber, Leatherman etc.
They usually have a pocket knife of some kind - varies widely in terms of cost and type.

Some infantry types will have a 5-6" utility knife on their LBE - but this is the exception rather than the rule. We are trained to shoot the bad guys before they get close enough to get friendly.. :D

Regards,

Ed
 
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