Satanite???

D

DukeHarley

Joined
Apr 11, 2014
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Ok I went to pick up some insulated firebrick today at a place here in town called Industrial Firebrick Inc. and asked them if they also had satanite and the guy said yes but it sells in large bags but he might have a quart container of it and when he brought it out I wasn't sure what to expect but it looks like wet cement but darker with about a 1/4 inch of oil or liquid that looks to have seperated on the top. Now from doing a search and reading it sounds like this is different from satanite that is used for Hamons? Is this the same stuff used for Hamons or is this actually some sort of refractory or furnace cement? Is satanite a powder or a wet mix? Just wondering what this may be that I bought today. Here's what it looks like and upon closer inspection it seems more like water on top.

Jay

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I get the powder satanite. You could mix it up real good and thin it out a bit and try it out to see what you come up with.
 
That's the stuff there. what you do, mix up a small batch and when finished, put the leftovers in a small jar and pour some water to cover it. Keeps good for quite some time.
 
The satanite usually comes in powdered form, but there is some stuff offered by Hightemptools called APG#36 that comes in a container EXACTLY like the one in the picture. It is mixed with water already. I had some of that stuff for a few years......didn't like it near as much as powdered satanite. You had to keep it watered down, or it would dry out on you. When you added water to the container, and let it sit for a while, that brown liquid would form on top of the refractory material...exactly like the picture shows. APG#36 is different from satanite....Bob Engnath used it a lot....along with some of the other katana makers.
 
So when I goto use it on a blade I take it I want it the consistency of pudding or sour cream? So just mix a small batch with some water til I get the desired consistency?

Jay
 
While I like powdered satanite, the APG#36 works well. Some feel it sticks better ( I never saw any difference).

For making a hamon, mix the clay to about as thin as runny pancake batter. You only want a thin coating. Most folks mix it like plaster, and put it on twice as thick as needed. In getting an active hamon, more is not better.
Sand to 220 grit and clean the blade very well. The clay needs a good surface to cling to.
Coat the entire blade with a thin wash of satanite and let dry. This should be no more than a thin skin of clay, sort of like whitewash. This thin layer actually helps in the hardening speed and controls decarb and scale. A hair dryer is a great aid in drying the clay.
Coat the areas above where hamon formation is desired with a second layer of satanite. This layer should only be 1/16' thick. Closer to the spine you can put a third coat making the total no more than 1/8" at the spine. Build up thin places as needed, remembering that thickness is not desired normally.
Add ashi lines as desired if using that pattern.
Let dry well,..... overnight at least.
Heat evenly and fully, and do the yaki-ire or quench.
 
I've never seen satanite personally, but as mentioned earlier, that looks a lot like the APG #36 I use for hamons. I don't know how it compares to satanite, but I like it MUCH better than Rutlands. No maker's preferences are exactly the same as another's - some like it, some don't - you'll just have to try it and see how it works for you.

One more thing. Maybe I just don't mix it right or something, but after I STOPPED adding a little water to #36, I have had zero issues with crazy-wide cracks or the clay falling off if I so much as breathe on it.
 
Oops, didn't get my post finished, LOL.

ITC-100 is my preferred choice for the final lining of my forges... it's amazing stuff. But it's expensive. I wouldn't use it for hamons.

ASSuming that what you have in the tub is ITC-100, then that tub is worth about the same as a 50# bag of satanite!



I use powder Satanite for hamons (or nothing ;) LOL)

I mix up a "wash" first that basically looks like REALLY dirty water. I use a cheap paint brush and paint a coating on the blade, then hit it with a propane torch to make it dry. It's basically just a primer for the main clay. You'll most likely have to scrape the clay off after the quench if you do this. :thumbup:

For the main body of clay, I mix it with water, to the consistency of a light butter-cream frosting. Apply it... THIN. 98% of the photos I've seen online of clayed-up blades have waaaaay too much clay on them, IMHO.

Then I add some water to thin the clay a bit more, and do my Ashi lines.

At that point, I use a propane torch to "brown" the clay. Basically toast it like a marshmallow. ;) Just enough to drive out the moisture, then you can go right into the fire with the blade and the clay ain't going anywhere. :)
 
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