Save the Gimmick, Just Make this Better

evilgreg said:
I generally agree (e.g. the 0801 log splitting wedge, er, knife) but there are exceptions. I carry the 0770cf semi-regularly and while it doesn't cut like a laser it also doesn't cut like an axe either.



It's how thin the blade is behind the edge--and for deep cuts how thin it is in totality--that has the biggest effect on performance, assuming edges are sharpened similarly when comparing two knives. It's not rocket science or magic, take your thickest tacticool folder and sharpen it similar to a small Opinel and see which cuts better for a variety of tasks. Outside of splitting wood or prying, the flimsy little Opinel will win in a landslide . . .

Full disclosure: I often carry too-thick folding brick knives, including possibly the ultimate stupidity--a Medford. I don't pretend thick knives excel at being knives, though.
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You're preaching to the choir, when I reprofile on the edge pro it is shocking the tbte and the angle some knives come with. ZT knives stock is fairly thick but we're discussing the tbte. Thin an edge less than 20 degrees inclusive and use that knife like my wife's uncle... Yea it won't survive the indiscernment. The reason they come with obtuse edges is simple; most people abuse their knives.

As I mentioned I prefer thinner edges, but I take care of my knives..
 
It's not complicated, they send out knives to survive tasks customers will use the knife for, we as knife nuts, can thin the edge to our preference.
 
shinyedges said:
I haven't been here as long as many guys, I have never seen anyone say those words.
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Of course nobody says this, but it can be a bit of a mentality with someone who would complain about the lack of flash on a knife.
I've never heard someone say " I can't use it because it's not flashy enough ", but many certainly won't buy them otherwise.
( Here it's normally people who buy simply to photograph, few and far between but I believe there are some here)
 
Hickory n steel said:
Of course nobody says this, but it can be a bit of a mentality with someone who would complain about the lack of flash on a knife.
I've never heard someone say " I can't use it because it's not flashy enough ", but many certainly won't buy them otherwise.
( Here it's normally people who buy simply to photograph, few and far between but I believe there are some here)
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Unless you can quote someone posting this nonsense, please shut up.
You cannot know if someone buys a knife to photograph.....and if they do, why would that make them an idiot?? They feel or act differently than you?
There are words for that way of thinking and they have no place here.
 
CRKT M-16 and M-21 (no freaking tantos) with G10 + D2 steel. Ontario found a way to use D2 in their Rats at a great price, other companies should be able to come close.
 
GermanyChris said:
I'll do my weekly stand up for CRKT post:

I got a Crossbones for Christmas and it's a quality knife even with AUS8 and aluminum. The AUS8 is done correctly it flips nicely and it'll fall shut with a little shake. While I still predominantly carry my Sebenza if there's a day I know I'm going to be stuck in my office I carry it because it's lighter and smaller in the pocket.
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I only have one CRKT - a Follow-Thru Compact and it is an excellent knife for under $50. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a smallish, light and inexpensive flipper. Anyone I know that appreciates knives has been impressed by the quality and action of this knife.

Maybe I got lucky, but I really like this knife.
 
Hickory n steel said:
Of course nobody says this, but it can be a bit of a mentality with someone who would complain about the lack of flash on a knife.
I've never heard someone say " I can't use it because it's not flashy enough ", but many certainly won't buy them otherwise.
( Here it's normally people who buy simply to photograph, few and far between but I believe there are some here)
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Didn't you buy a total piece of crap knife just because you liked the looks of it, knowing full well it was junk? (It was some kind of bone-handled Walmart-brand folder, iirc.) How is than any different from buying (and photographing?) a flashy, expensive knife you'll never use all that much? In both cases, you're putting looks ahead of functionality.

Which is fine with me, btw. Glass houses, etc., however.
 
Hickory n steel said:
Of course nobody says this, but it can be a bit of a mentality with someone who would complain about the lack of flash on a knife.
I've never heard someone say " I can't use it because it's not flashy enough ", but many certainly won't buy them otherwise.
( Here it's normally people who buy simply to photograph, few and far between but I believe there are some here)
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Which has what to do with you and this petty crusade of yours, exactly? So what if people like knives that are "flashy"? I'll ask again, what's wrong with people liking something you don't like? You want to call someone out, you can call me out. Here, I'll say it. I'm not buying any knives that I think are ugly. Period. If I am buying an expensive knife, and the maker has two available for similar prices, one that has a plain appearance, grey Ti scales, serviceable blade, and the second has a mirror finish blade and some mokuti adornments on the handle, I'm probably buying the prettier one. Then? This is really going to blow your mind, then I'm going to take pictures of it and put them on Instagram. And my friends who follow me? They're going to give me the likes. THE HORROR. Then, oh man, and then? Then I'm only going to use that knife for light tasks, that way it stays pristine looking. Man, I can hear the steam venting from here. LOL Don't even care, man.
 
Quiet said:
Which has what to do with you and this petty crusade of yours, exactly? So what if people like knives that are "flashy"? I'll ask again, what's wrong with people liking something you don't like? You want to call someone out, you can call me out. Here, I'll say it. I'm not buying any knives that I think are ugly. Period. If I am buying an expensive knife, and the maker has two available for similar prices, one that has a plain appearance, grey Ti scales, serviceable blade, and the second has a mirror finish blade and some mokuti adornments on the handle, I'm probably buying the prettier one. Then? This is really going to blow your mind, then I'm going to take pictures of it and put them on Instagram. And my friends who follow me? They're going to give me the likes. THE HORROR. Then, oh man, and then? Then I'm only going to use that knife for light tasks, that way it stays pristine looking. Man, I can hear the steam venting from here. LOL Don't even care, man.
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You turd! You don't even use knifes bro!
 
I agree with you Robert - and I love my 0909! It's in my EDC rotation.

midnight flyer said:
I think a good case in point would be the ZT 0909 to make my argument. A knife DOES have to have a bling factor to be successful today. The 0909 is a great work knife, absolutely no frills. Well thought out, it has heavy enough jimping to be useful when you are wearing work gloves, the blade steel is excellent, and it has G10 handles on both sides. Frame locks are awful to use for long periods of heavy use for me (XL hands) as the overall thickness is too small, and the lock side is slippery and uncomfortable when my hands are really sweaty. The 0909 solves this with G10 both sides, and the small, but completely competent pocket clip that doesn't dig into you hand with use. I like it enough on the job site I bought a spare!

So what was the downfall of this knife? I read it here, read it on independent reviews, etc., and all the same thing: not enough flash, not enough bling. Reviewers said the jimping was too heavy and didn't look refined but more like an afterthought. The black only G10 was a turn off to some. People complained loudly about the size of the pocket clip and it works just fine, but too small for their design tastes. Few liked the hex nut on the pivot, but I though it was a genius touch to enable easy field repairs. Some thought it was too heavy and could have benefited from some aggressive milling here and there, some titanium, and anything to make it more pretty. I think the knife was one of KAI's shortest run ZTs.
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Quiet said:
Mine are all fine in the fit and finish department, and good enough for me. Source: I own seventeen or so at last count, to include one of Ernie's Customs.

As for the Kershaw models being better, LOL not even close. It's ok not to like Emersons, but to say that those sad little Kershaw models are better is just incorrect. The ZT models ARE nice, but they don't hold a candle to the real thing in the things that most Emerson guys favor (such as ergonomics). I also wish that ZT had decided to do better than a 3.5 inch or so blade. I prefer the larger Emerson models personally. All of that said, I do not own any of the ZT models, because they are typical Zero Tolerance quality, and I wanted something a little less soulless. Emerson products aren't for everyone, and again, that's ok. Your mileage may vary. (shrug)
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I have said this in other threads. Emersons have more of a fighting knife soul to them. When I pick up a ZT Emerson it feels more like a solid work knife that has some fighting ability secondary.

I find Emersons are more fighting/utility and the ZT Emersons are more utility/fighting.

There are definitely many things Ernie could do to improve his product. When Ernie started making his production Emersons he was using the original Michael Walker liner lock design which considered lock stick a feature. Emerson knives are straight out of the 1990s and haven’t changed much since then.

Sure they are not the best modern fidgit knife on bearings with a flipper. (My cqc7 is actually an amazingly smooth and free swinging flipper)
 
Wow did this thread explode ! Less than two days and well over 100 posts.
I agree . . . Let me line up my cheepies and take a photo.
This could take a while.
As the opening line at the mansion in the film Haunted Honeymoon says : "It's not what ya think."
I can promise some diversion from the photos so far.
 
Kershaw Entropy in a bad way! Love the handle design, but the frn just didnt jive with this knife imo. And i personally would prefer better then 8cr, non assisted, usa made. Its one that could easily become one of my favorites. Still hoping ZT gets ahold of it one day.
 
Wowbagger said:
Wow did this thread explode ! Less than two days and well over 100 posts.
I agree . . . Let me line up my cheepies and take a photo.
This could take a while.
As the opening line at the mansion in the film Haunted Honeymoon says : "It's not what ya think."
I can promise some diversion from the photos so far.
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Yeah, same old stuff, too. Little to do with the thread's question, and the normal squabbling about who makes the better knife between their respective fans. The variant here is trying to explain that if someone doesn't like what you do you are wrong. No taste consideration, just an opportunity to crap on someone else.

Back on topic, I am thinking that if some of the makers in question (no names... for Pete's sake... no names!) don't get wired up with some good steels they will lose market to the new crop of respected off shore companies (no manufacturing locations... NO LOCATIONS!) that are using "better steels" in their budget lines.

Why is it a company with all the cad/cnc/cutting files in their computers and the assembly jigs in place already can't substitute a better steel and charge the difference? Who wouldn't want one of their favorite work knives in a steel that is plainly better? Look at the RAT in D2? A solid seller, great all around knife and they are apparently still selling plenty of the original and the new in D2. And they did nothing but change the steel.

By me.

Robert
 
Quiet said:
For what it's worth, Emerson DOES make both these knives, I have the knife the top one is modeled after, the Appalachian. It cost me around $140 on the secondary market, but I like Emersons and don't mind paying those prices for those materials. The bottom knife is patterned off some custom, if I recall correctly, which means that you won't find that sort of price on the few of those there are.
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I really really want an emerson one day. These sort of reminded me of the roadhouse which is a design I absolutely love but just cant pull the trigger on. I have no problems with the materials, 154cm is one of my favorite steels and g10 is one of my favorite handle materials, but I hear so much about Emerson having poor quality control, Im afraid I will get a knife with blade play or really bad centering, which is something I just couldn't accept for the $200 price point. I have been considering starting a thread about this but have not yet due to it being a little bit of a touchy subject. I think I need to just find a good used cqc 7 on here and see what I think then go from there. Im not a knife fighter by any means but I think that MR. Emerson makes some of the most functional and "toolish/utilitarian" looking knives, which is something that I greatly appreciate because if I get one, it will be used to its full potential. (hopefully minus self defense. I carry a smith and wesson with 9 little buddies with me under my shirt everyday minus when Im in class in case that happens :) ) But i mean full potential as a tool, it will be used just as hard as my $120 manix.
sorry OP if this derails the thread a little!!!!
 
skyhorse said:
They're really reasonable nowadays but when they first came out close to $100.:eek:
http://kershawguy.com/products-page/kershaw/kershaw-1550-blackout-sandvik-speed-safe-nib/
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I've had mine for 15-odd years, ever since my wife gave it to me for Christmas one year. That's about what she paid, and it was $100 well spent! It's been through hell and back, and currently lives in the tool bag in my truck.

More to the point, i agree, it is one of those knives that I would love to see in a better steel. I'd buy another one today, if a better steel was available, at a reasonable price. I'm sure S30V would be easily doable for the $100 the knife cost originally. Hell, I think they should do it with the Knockout, Link, or any of the other US made knives.

There are a lot of us 'average' knife buyers, who are beyond the $25 range, but not collectors willing to spend $150 and up for a knife were gonna 'use-and-abuse' on a daily basis. We're not 'knife-snobs' but we understand the value of a good, well built tool. Had the Knockout been in a better steel, I might not have a Manix 2 as my current EDC...
 
Agree about the Knockout, that design deserves a better steel.
I have a HOB exclusive Link in s35 and it is one hell of a work knife. Think it cost me around $75 and it is worth every penny.
Joe

jaseman said:
I've had mine for 15-odd years, ever since my wife gave it to me for Christmas one year. That's about what she paid, and it was $100 well spent! It's been through hell and back, and currently lives in the tool bag in my truck.

More to the point, i agree, it is one of those knives that I would love to see in a better steel. I'd buy another one today, if a better steel was available, at a reasonable price. I'm sure S30V would be easily doable for the $100 the knife cost originally. Hell, I think they should do it with the Knockout, Link, or any of the other US made knives.

There are a lot of us 'average' knife buyers, who are beyond the $25 range, but not collectors willing to spend $150 and up for a knife were gonna 'use-and-abuse' on a daily basis. We're not 'knife-snobs' but we understand the value of a good, well built tool. Had the Knockout been in a better steel, I might not have a Manix 2 as my current EDC...
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