Saw-backed knives

Mike,
Save yourself a lot of time and chop thru what you want to saw thru.

In order for a saw-edge to work properly on a knife, the blade NEEDS to be flat ground or the thickness of the blade will cause it to bind once you reach a certain depth of cut.
Binding will cause you to waste more time. I haven't seen a knife with a saw on the back that worked worth a darn anyway.

My $.02

Barry
Jones Knives
 
Back at the time when the survival knives were in vogue, many had the saw teeth and most users/makers etc felt that they did not do any job particularly well.
Harald Moeller decided to create a survival knife with saw teeth that did the job--at least on wood.
To see a couple of versions of his knife, point to
http://www.c-zone.net/revrhorn/hmoeller/pic11.jpg

this same knife in a more expensive version was created with a hollowed out handle wrapped in cord with a variety of items enclosed including various screw drivers and other tools. Because this version has a round handle, it would be easier to saw with.

The knife shown will saw through a 2 x 2 very rapidly and the knife itself is useful in many ways. All in all, the Bearclaw is well thought out and functional.
 
If you really need a saw in a convenient package, you might consider a "pocket" chainsaw. Basically it's a wire saw, except it uses a chain of small blades.
 
Felix is right about the pocket chain saw, the ones made from seperate links (Quick Cut, Short Cut) work great (better than the wire ones). Good for clearing high limbs too, just attach some cord to the handles and you can extend your reach.

I have a Al Mar Warrior, mine does not have saw teeth it has fairly large serrations along the inside of the curve.

I have a Randall with saw teeth. While they may work on sheet metal they don't work on wood.

The SAK or the Gerber multi-tool with interchangable blades are great for ensuring sawing capability on a day to day basis. Pruning saws work great too, but I don't normally carry one.

[This message has been edited by Steve6 (edited 18 December 1999).]
 
I have always been intrigued by the concept of cutting through aircraft aluminium with a knife (sawbacked or otherwise).
I have not studied the subject closely but have always assumed there would be a strong metal skeleton under the thin sheeting. If I am correct, a knife would take quite a while to cut through enough ribs to allow egress by a normally sized human.
Or is the idea just another fantasy ?
Anyone done it ? Even as an experiment ?



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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343


 
Brian, I have never cut through airplane Al but used low quality issue chow knife (blade reshaped a bit) to open canned food in army. If (soft) Al alloy is similar to tin, I would not need saw teeth to cut. Some others even cut through car metal doors with primary edge (see General Forum blade tests for some really abusive test-not recommended for daily use!). Question I am left with: how often do we need that function?

BTW some of the multitools have even some saw blade for metal and a separate one for wood. Leatherman Wave has both and it is a buty (i love that tool). Small saws though. I agree with Steve6 in the usefulness of multitools.

Murray, how could you resharpen the teeth (diamond rod?). I have similar big teeth with rounded bottom on my Schrade Extreme Survival. It also has a ~3'' section with small serration to use for metal. Those big teeth were fine for wood for the few times when I used. Because of the rounded bottoms it supposed to generate less stress on blade. I used knife for splitting wood and did not see damage on saw spine.

However, I tend to agree with more experienced 'frontiermen' and blade smiths posted above (ex. Rob Simonich) and on other forums and would avoid sawtooth on my primary survival cutting tool (knife). As a complementer I would pick a RuckSack SAK, a multitool, a folding saw, a pocket chainsaw, or a spade/saw combo.

Furthermore, Barry Jones is right that many times a good primary cutting tool can work efficiently as a chopping tool faster than a less-than-perfect saw.

Check out survival knife threads on General Forum too and consider also the wilderness experience of the person who posts. Using the experience of the experts might save some money later on.

Just an opinion.
Everybody, enjoy the weekend,

HM

 
I have a Steel Eagle (TOPS) with a saw on the spine that functions well. The teeth are offset and bite into and clear wood decently. I can chop faster than I can saw, however chopping requires a much larger range of motion, much more energy and is easily prevented by hand injury compared to sawing. The saw cuts are also much neater for binding and lashings. There are also certain materials (hard plastics and such) that are very difficult to chop compared to sawing. One final aspect, sawing is far less likely to cause an injury than heavy chopping, however this would only apply to lending your knife to the inexperienced.

-Cliff
 
HM

No worries with cutting sheet metal....just the frame that stops it all blowing out under the stresses of pressurization or from collapsing under its own weight.
I thought that was clear from my post.
After all, even a tin can has bits you will have difficulty cutting with a knife.

As for the Al Mar Warrior....seems (judging by this thread) there were two types : one with a sawback and one with serrations ????
Frankly, all of my reading supports one kind with serrations meant to "grab" rather than cut or saw.

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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343


 
jrf

I think any confusion came from your clear statement(now deleted) that you had personal experience of the successfull use of the Warrior as a saw. This made me think your friend's knife must be different from the ones I had seen and read about.....they would definitely not have worked as efficient saws. Or, even, inefficient ones.
As you say " no big deal". But I don't think I was being all that "STRICT" in my description....just trying for the kind of accuracy we all look for here
smile.gif

Don't we all come here(atleast partly) for factual information regarding knives ?



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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343
If you are not laughing, you may as well be crying.

 
Cliff,

Thanks for the feedback on the TOPS. I figured that by now someone had made good sawteeth. Of course, your comments might convince me that I should bring a saw along. What they don't convince me is that the saw should be on the back of my knife. Pounding the back of the spine can be problemsome with a sawback. More importantly, sometimes I like to choke up with one hand on the back of the spine, risky business with a sawback knife. Speed-wise, I think I can beat a sawback knife with either a folding chainsaw or folding saw, though I really do need to try this race with a decent sawback knife.

Joe
 
jrf

No....the confusion is caused because you made a detailed and clear post regarding personal experience. THEN, when it was challenged, you deleted it and made like I was being pedantic.
OK.....have it your way : the problem is that people(including manufacturers) think that serrations and sawteeth are the same.
You did not say that the Warrior was an exception to the locally accepted belief that sawbacked knives are inefficient and that you had witnessed the Warrior performing as an efficient wood saw.
I apologize for failing to comprehend your perfectly logical argument. The available evidence supports your stance and I bow out.

Now...any discussion on knives and escaping from aircraft ? Any one with a real knowledge of helicopter and fixed wing construction ?

------------------
BrianWE
ICQ #21525343
If you are not laughing, you may as well be crying.

 
Sawbacks, are they usefull?

The sawbacks have been around for a long time. They first started poping up in volume after the industrial revolution made production possible. If you look around carefully at a good collector show you might see a good sawback that pre-dates the Rambo inspired bunch by at least a century. At one time they were badges of rank worn by non-commissioned officers, or part of the uniform of artillery and pioneer units.

I love sawback knives, and have many sawback pattern knives in my collection. Many of these knives (Randall mod 14/18, Chris Reaves Project, Walter Brend model 2, etc.) are excellent field knives. In the military many sawback knives and bayonets remain standard issue items today. But, too many sawback knives and bayonets are poorly designed and executed fantasy pieces.

I like collecting this pattern because its the closest the 20th century has come to re-creating the level of myths and hype that must have surrounded the "Bowie Knife" almost 150 years before.

As to whether the knife is useful; well that depends largly on the user. Unfortunately, any discussion of the subject must be tainted by the vast amount of hype surrounding these knives. None of these knives make efficient saws, and they were never intended to be. The best of them are useful in Gnawing through tough substances such as plexiglass canopies, wet/frozen ropes, wood, and soft metals. Whether they are "useful" depends on the rest of your kit and, as is usually the case, on the situation which you expect to face.

As for the stress riser concern - its a real concern. But, the same could be said of many other practical and decorative features that we often find on knives. Like everything else its a feature that can often be implemented correctly and more often is implemented incorrectly.

 
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