Saw my first blacksmithing demo today:

Robert_Phelps

Robert_Phelps

Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
475
It wasn't quite as cool as I thought it would be... mostly for kids, I guess. I did learn how to forge a leaf though. Oddly enough, the demonstrator was a young lady (Who could've beat up most guys probably). I did talk to her afterwards (asked if I could be shown in person how to a forge weld, but she wasn't equiped to do one), and mentioned I was interested in forge welding for a project of mine (Making a bardiche, requiring me to forge weld on sockets for the handle). She said I might could rivet the sockets on with pins, 'since forge welding is very difficult'.
Could someone expierienced/knowledgable about rivets like that on things like pole-axes offer some advice on it? (Or at least on hard working joints being riveted?) Also, how difficult is forge welding? I've learned the basics of moving metal around all the different ways, pretty well.

Also, found out the guy whose apprentice she was, is a knifemaker. So that's the first knife maker I've heard about in my city.

Thanks for the help.
 
Maybe she just didn't have anything to flux with. If you can get it hot enough and clean you can get it to weld. As far as rivets go. There are some very old riveted pieces that still work. The Empire State building, many older bridges and I have personally worked around a set of very old pressure vessels that were riveted together. They were used to boil the liguid from wood chips in a pulp mill. It was made with overlapping plates riveted together. The joints are that tight and still secure after well over 60 years. A well riveted connection is very strong. The rivet is installed while red hot and then riveted tight and as as it cools it shrinks. You could do a shrink fit on your joints and rivet and have a very secure connection. I would personally prefer a GOOD weld.
 
She may or may not have been ABLE to forge weld, but I can understand her not being willing. I would NEVER do any forge welding at a general demonstration. Too many people concentrating on too many other things, and not wearing safety glasses for me to be slinging hot flux around.

I've also found that a lot of "modern" blacksmiths think that forge welding is a very difficult skill and will actually plan projects to avoid it. I think some of it comes down to the fact that while wrought iron is stupefyingly easy to forge weld, A36/mild can be more of a challenge, especially if you skip surface prep and proper fluxing (as many blacksmith's do).

The forge welds that we do as bladesmiths are basically glorified faggot welds, which are VERY simple. We further reduce our failure rate by cleaning and prepping all surfaces very well. I doubt many bladesmiths would have as much success with butt welds, t-section welds, or drop tong welds that a good blacksmith must be able to accomplish repeatedly.

All that said, if you learned something from the demo, she did her job well. I would have made sure to get her mentor's name and tried to track him down, but I'm kind of insane about meeting everybody I can and talking to anybody who will listen to me. :)

-d
 
Yeah Deker is right, Forge welding is NOT a thing to do for the crowds, especially when there is kids at eye level with the top of your anvil.
 
I agree that she may not have had flux, or may not have wanted to forgeweld in front of a crowd, there is quite a few chances for something to go wrong. I demo quite a bit at Ren faires, and have forge welded pieces for the crowd, I also have a roped off area with plenty of space, and a plexiglass shield that can be set between my anvil and the crowd when necessary.

For the Bardiche, I have seen some put together with rivets, but welding was much more common. In the riveted bardiches, there were three rivets on each collar, not just one.

All in all, you should be able to weld them, just make sure that you plan ahead, and prepare the pieces. the collars should be hammered to a feather edge everywhere that they will meet the blade, so the weld will be seamless. if you try to weld the collars on with straight edges, there will be a seam, a crease where the blade material squeezes in, but does not weld. that will cause all sorts of problems. Stress risers can start there, cracking the blade, or splitting the weld.

Ken Nelson
 
Using a rivet joint for a bardche would be asinine if you were to do anything with it other than hang it on your wall. Forge welding a higher carbon steel is seriously easy and strong. Clean your piece, put borax on it, heat it until the borax bubbles and foams add more borax heat it until it's like glass with little bubbles (after it's been smooth and bubble free) put the faces together and give it a gentle tap to set it, then a growing spiral of tabs out from the centervover the face of the joint, add more borax reheat it that hot, repeat the joining hits a bit harder. Its' going to spit flux everywhere until the joint is completely closed, dress accordingly (gloves, apron that covers your chest and tenderbits, eye protection, boots, no synthetic fabrics). I used to think forge welding was this mystical difficult process that only master smiths could do, then Michael McCarthy had me do my first 8 on a bloom, now I do it a lot. Easiest way to join 2 peices of steel! No wonder they did it so much in period!

-Page
 
Thanks for the help, I wanted to forge weld it anyhow. :thumbup:

Also- pfft! The bardiche will be used to protect my castle and the surrounding territories from marauding black knights, and the like.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top