Sawback on knife; jay or nay?

S

shrogran

Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
81
Hello,

I got injected by 'blade-fever' lately and what is better then to get up to date on technical stuff then learning from the users themselves :D
I am from the Netherlands and am going on a trip to Peru soon (jungle trek). I was asked to buy a general purpose knife, fixed blade. Machetes will be provided for. The question is this: i see knifes with sawbacks. What is the general opinion about this? Usefull or not? Any experience from the field with this feature on a knife used in the field/jungle?
Sorry if i sound a bit n00b, as i am guilty of that.

GreetZ,

Shrogran
 
Welcome to the forums.

The sawback is a specialized tool, that does interfere with the normal functioning of the knife. While, I would not go so far as to call it useless, I would not go with this feature unless I had a clear and specific need for it.

SwissModel1911Bayonet.jpg


There were a number of massive 19th century bayonets and sidearms with sawbacks; and, while one can argue that it would have been easier to chop through a limb with the cutting edge rather then gnaw through them with the sawbacks, I would not have wanted to be the guy swinging one of these on the battlefield. The noise would have made you the target of every enemy rifleman within hearing range; much better to lie prone and saw away quietly. Sometimes you need a specialized tool, even when it is less efficient then a general purpose one.

n2s
 
I think they can be very useful at time,
but I would recommend that you get one that only goes 1/2 the length of the blade so it doesn't interefere with cutting.
 
Welcome to Bladeforums! :D

Generally speaking, you're better off with a good folding saw if you need a saw. You can get reliable folding saws from Opinel, Buck, Spyderco, and Gerber, as well as less known brands. Or you may only need a wire saw, but I don't know how effective that would be.

For light work, the saw on a Swiss Army Knife is great, and a good SAK or multitool should be required carry in any survival or serious camping environment, anyway.

For a hike through the jungle, you could use a relatively light utility fixed blade. like the Mora 2000 (about halfway down the page: #2000).
2000.jpg
 
MY vote is to go with the folding saw and medium duty knife as well.The sawback on knives are usually too thick and their cutting ability can't compare to the thin fast cutting blade of a folding pruning saw.
 
Sawbacks on bayonets were conceived during the trench warfare of WWI, for cutting down barbed wire fence posts, I believe. Don't know how well they worked, but probably not very well. Saw teeth can weaken the blade. The only half way decent saw on a knife is on the SAK, in my experience (it's a pretty good design). If you need a saw, get a folding one or a T-handled saw -- I have one made by Buck that works well on big game and almost as well on wood.
 
That's a really great Swiss sawback you've got. Goes on a Swiss Schmidt Rubin 1911 carbine I think. Sometimes they were issued to sapper/engineer/pioneers for clearing brush, cutting fence posts, and the like. Also, I've heard one idea was they would be handy for cutting down small trees to make strechers with. That's about a WWI period bayonet. Back in the 1800s, there was a similar concept sometimes called a hewer/pioneer's sword. Used for general heavy utility work, but not fitted for use as a bayonet. I'll agree, most of the saw teeth on bayonets like yours don't seem too sharp, but they do look really cool.
 
Heck, the tiny saw on my PowerLock can do a much better job than most of the cosmetic sawbacks. Like others' have said, find a good folding saw.
 
I would like to thank you all very much for replying so far. Keep the info coming if you can, especially field experience with the feature of sawbacks is what i am curious about. But i am glad my first instinct: get a good blade and a seperate saw seems to be the way to go by the majority here. And yes, ofcourse i will take my Leatherman Wave with me also. I never leave on a field trip without it. It has served me well so far.
Nothings decided yet, as i have some friends who DO swear by the sawback on a blade.
But thank you all for the information so far. Keep it coming!

By the way: thanks for welcoming me into the world o' blades :D It is a pleasure to be here. Maybe my limited experience can be of help to others too one day i hope.

Stay safe.
 
Remember one great drawback to a sawback: when the saw is in use, the cutting edge of the blade is facing you. You may be leaning over it, you will be pushing against the knife. I don't like that from a safety viewpoint.
 
I've had some wilderness survival training and have used a knife in the outdoors a good bit. I have never used a saw-back knife and was instructed to avoid them. The saw-back gets in the way of push-cutting when you are wanting to press down on the blade spine. It is both a nuisance and a safety hazard. While I am sure that some people find it useful, I have never needed a saw-back blade. In fact, for the field work I've done (starting fire, building shelters, food preparation, making traps and snares, etc) a saw back would have been a major detriment.

If you are needing a saw, and I can imagine how one would be useful in the jungle, then you should buy a compact, folding or T-shaped saw. I do not know of any specific models but I am sure that, if you ask about them, some people here could recommend good saws. Let the knife you purchase be a cutting tool. Get a light-weight saw for the sawing jobs. And, you are right, your Leatherman Wave is a very good tool to have, too.

Have fun on your trip and welcome to Bladeforums. :)
 
Shrogran,
What kind of an expedition is this?
Cutting your own trail?
Guided tour?
A full week in 'the wild' or an overnighter?
Are you there for a specific purpose such as archaeology or botanical study?
Avoid sawbacks and pick up a simple Bowie type blade under 9". If conditions are wet as in rainforest, leather (handles and/or sheath) may mold and deteriorate over time.
Do you have an outlet where you can handle a variety of blades? Comfort and confidence are considerations. Compliment your fixed blade with a good quality multitool (Powerlocks are awesome).
Do not get any of those 'survival' knives with hollow handles if you think you will really need to depend on it! 99.9% of trekkers will never be beyond help and end up relying on their own so don't pack for it.
Wish I was going. You could help me carry my stuff.... ;)
 
Just like my forespeakers, I vote against the sawback. I carried one of those Rambo knives for quite some time (about a couple years) and frankly durng al this time I found no decent use of those teeth. I bought the knife because the Rambo-mania just made appearance and the knife was cool. It was reliable, strong and pretty decent made, but as I said, those teeth had nothing but the "wow" effect. ;)
If I were to choose a saw, Spyderco makes a reliable folding saw, AUS-8 blade, Zytel handles, pocket clip and lockback.
As for the fixed blade, I wouldn't choose a machete. I'd rather take one of those Cold Steel khukris but that's just my personal prefference.
 
Merek:

I will be in a wildlife reserve in Peru with a guide. We will be camping and although there are some supplies, we will also do some small hunting. So versatily and strength of the knife should be very important. Machete will be aquired locally. So main uses of the knife would be: the usual small chopping chores, cutting, hammering, digging. That kind of general abuse. I have found sawback usefull, but i also hate them for the same reasons as everyone else. AND they take away some strength of the blade. When i was in the mangrove woods in Mexico (also on a serious outback) the sawblade of one of my former knives (Gerber BMF; lost it in a fjord of Norway :mad: ) was able to deal with the small roots and branches by putting them between the sawteeth and twisting the knife. Those small roots/branches can sometimes be hard to cut as they bend (very flexible). But ofcourse, that is a limited use. My next knife, SOG Tigershark i used in Costa Rica without any problems at all. I sold it to my brother last year. So now i am looking for a replacement and can't seem to decide on the sawback :-)
Thanks for all your information and experience, guys. I appreciate it and it is really helping me make up my mind.
 
Hell. You ain't no noobie! Replace any of the knives you had previously.
(Digging with a knife is only for Marines.)
Have a great time. Need anyone to carry luggage? ;)
 
Merek:

Well, i used to be in the Dutch Marines :-) so you are right there. And i will use my equipment anyway i see fit, so if some digging is needed and the blade will do the job, so be it. But i mean i am n00b compared to most people in here i think. My technical knowledge on knives is rather unsubstantial when compared to others in here, but i have experience with the use of knives in the fields/mountains/jungles. I know i abuse them and see them as tools (maybe too much) but that also brings forth weaknesses in design and unexpected advantages you did not think of before. Example: i took my Gerber BMF to Norway when i was hiking/climbing there with friends. We went fishing on the Saltstraumenfjord. We fished with line on fingers/hand so your hands got really wet and slippery. But the BMF with his great handle performed like a dream when it came to grip and quickly killing the caught fish. So the handle, which i thought to be a bit weird in the beginning with its neoprene-style grip, was better then expected in those circumstances. But on the other hand: i always thought of lanyards to be irritating and 'in the way'. I will never think that again, i still see my BMF sinking in the water when i lost my balance on that very rough water there... :grumpy: (Maybe a simple and not the best example).
And thanks! I bet i will have a GREAT time.
 
"My technical knowledge on knives is rather unsubstantial when compared to others in here, but i have experience with the use of knives in the fields/mountains/jungles."

See? There you go thinking we have answers when YOU have EXPERIENCE!
Maybe someone here has a knife for our extreme buddy to field test on his little Peruvian jaunt? Any makers out there want to donate a blade? C'mon, I'm sure destruction tests are tax-deductable.... :p
 
Hehe: i would love to do a field test with one :-) but not much chance i guess. I would give it a rather good workout :-)
Ah, i like spending money anyway, so i will buy me a new blade (nothing like that first virgin touch on a new knife). I think i will go with the Extrema Ratio Golem or Harpoon (sawback still undecided but i think i will go for nay myself). Curious how they will compare to the SOG Tigershark and Gerber BMF i used to own.
 
Shhh! Cut the 'I like spending money' stuff.... I am trying to guilt someone into giving you a freebie dammit! IF their blades are good enough of course... :rolleyes:
 
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